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DENNIS P MCCANN

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Between thought and expression lies a lifetime.
Articles Posted: 48  Links Seeded: 139
Member Since: 7/2010  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

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Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

CoH Explained: The Next Step - Reporting Tools.

Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:20 AM EST
not-news, newsvine, code-of-honor, coh, coh-explained
By Dennis P McCann

CoH Shield.

Newsvine has tools that the users can use to report Articles/Seeds or Comments that are in violation of The Code of Honor or User Agreement. These tools have never been updated, though Newsvine has changed over the years, with the exception of the addition of the "Ignore This Author" tool, which was added when that feature became available. The purpose of this article is to look at the available tools, explore their intended uses, and suggest ways they can be made more effective.

Article/Seed Reporting Options.

Report all violations!

The options for reporting an article or seed are as follows:

  • Duplicate Story
  • Miscategorized/Off-topic
  • Broken or Pay Link
  • Inaccurate
  • Advertising
  • Misconduct/Unlawful
  • Ignore This Author

Duplicate Story

The first, Duplicate Story, was intended to keep Newsvine from becoming too cluttered by eliminating the same article from being seeded more than once. In the early years of Newsvine it was standard practice for a Viner who had seeded a duplicate to delete that duplicate, and defer to whomever had seeded the story first. It was not a written rule, more of an act of courtesy and respect for other Viners.  As time passed, it became less of a standard practice, and something only the most courteous of Viners did, and today, it is common for multiple seeds of the same article to exist simultaneously. This leads to the question of whether that tool is even necessary, since it's rarely used and almost never enforced.

My personal feeling is that the option could be eliminated, since it is largely unused, and duplicate seeds can lead to very different conversations, depending on who the seeder might be, and who visits the article(s).

Miscategorized/Off-Topic

The second reporting option is Miscategorized/Off-Topic.  This tool is essential, because articles and seeds need to properly categorized to keep Newsvine organized and usable. No one wants to see Home and Garden articles published to Politics, for example.

Broken or Pay Link

The third option, Broken or Pay Link is also essential. There's no point in seeding something no one can read.

Inaccurate

The fourth option, Inaccurate, is a source of much confusion. Just what makes an article or seed inaccurate? The answer, of course, is that it is not truthful. While obviously this doesn't apply as much to blogs, which are usually opinion, as it does to actual news stories, it can also apply to blogs. Opinions of actual events, when they misrepresent those events, can be inaccurate.

A recent example would be when, in July of last year, Anders Breivik set off bombs at government buildings in Oslo, Norway, then proceeded to go on a shooting spree at a camp for teenagers on the island of Utoya, leaving 77 people dead. Several prominent bloggers immediately jumped to the conclusion that the perpetrator had to have been Muslim, and published tirades against Islamist terrorists, in particular, and Muslims, in general.  Though mostly opinion pieces, they were nevertheless inaccurate because they were based on a false premise, that of the shooter being Muslim, when he was in fact a far-right militant. Many of those blogs were seeded to Newsvine, and were, or should have been, reported as inaccurate.

Advertising

Advertising, in the context of Newsvine, refers not only to traditional forms of advertising (ie, spam) but also to seeding from a blog or website with which you are in any way affiliated, ie, self-promotion.

Misconduct/Unlawful

What constitutes unlawful behavior when seeding or publishing an article? Plagiarism and/or Copyright Infringement. If they are not your words, do not publish them as an article. If you find something of interest on the internet that you want to share on Newsvine, seed it - but when you do...do not use more of the article than is allowed under fair use in your excerpt, and make sure to blockquote what you use. Failure to do either constitutes Copyright Infringement.

Ignore This Author

This one is self-explanatory.

Tools I would like to see

Under the Prohibited Conduct section of the User Agreement, it states that we, as users, agree not upload, post or otherwise transmit any User Content that:

  • is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, known to be false and presented as truth, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable;

We already have reporting tools that cover several, but not all, of these categories of prohibited content, but with what I consider one glaring deficiency: Seeding from Hate-filled sites and blogs.

To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever seeded from Stormfront (which I refuse to link to) and that's good. There is no place for antisemitism, or any other type of racially/ethnically/religiously motivated hatred on Newsvine. Likewise, no one has seeded from a Neo-Nazi or KKK website (if the KKK has a website, I wouldn't know), and a user was once banned form Newsvine for seeding from the BNP website, by then-moderator Emily, who had banned all seeds from that website.

There are others sites, from acknowledged hate groups, that do get seeded here, and I feel there should be a tool for reporting  them. This, of course, would require a consensus among Viners, or at least the staff, as to what constitutes a hate group/hate site, but once that standard is established, a tool should be made available to report such seeds. Perhaps the websites of groups listed as Hate Groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center would be a good starting point.

Another tool I would find useful would be one to report absent moderators or poor moderation. Many flame wars occur because either no one is moderating an article/seed, or they are doing so poorly, ie, deleting due to disagreement, letting personal attacks stand or otherwise allowing people to flagrantly violate the CoH. CoH 4 mandates that we moderate or columns, and lays out the proper methods for doing so.  There should be a way to notify the Community Moderators when a Viner fails to follow CoH 4.

Therefore, I would like to see the addition of these two reporting tools:

  • Hate Site
  • Poor/Absent Moderation

_____________________________________________________________________

Comment Reporting Options.

The current options are as follows:

  • No Value 
  • Inflammatory
  • Advertising
  • Ignore This Author

No Value

Originally intended as "of no value to the discussion" this particular reporting tool has become a source of great confusion. What constitutes value, or the lack of, is highly subjective. Some see a no value comment as anything not directly on topic - but we're not robots, and that interpretation leaves no room for friendly banter, humorous comments, etc. Does a comment have to directly add to the discussion to have value? Personally, I would say no. I believe that people having a little fun is a valuable thing. Comments that make me laugh hold value to me.

Because of this, I think the no value option should be dropped in favor an option to report attempted derails - comments that are intended to stop the discussion by changing the subject. If I'm on an article that's about tourist sites in Germany, I don't need to hear about Nazis. If the discussion is about US politics, I don't want to talk about Baseball.

Inflammatory

Another vague option. Intended as a way to report CoH 1 violations, perhaps it should simply just say that.

Advertising

Self-explanatory.

Ignore This Author

Self-explanatory.

There should also be an option for plagiarism/copyright infringement, as there is for articles and seeds. These days it's not uncommon to see long passages, taken from other sources, pasted into comments without blockquotes or attribution. The established procedure is to post an excerpt, in blockquotes, with a link, much as one would post a seed. Many people fail to do so, perhaps not realizing that they are violation the copyright of the original author.

Finally, because it is now enforced, grenade trolling should be added to the reporting tools. Grenade trolling would be defined as denigrating a group so as to attack any members of that group participating in the thread.

This would leave the options as follows:

  • Attempted Derail
  • Personal Attack
  • Grenade Trolling
  • Misconduct/Unlawful
  • Advertising
  • Ignore This Author

 

_____________________________________________________________________

Notice:

These are the five articles where we discussed the Code of Honor point by point.

CoH 1 | CoH 2 | CoH 3 | CoH 4 | CoH 5 | CoH 6

The full series can be found at this tag.

_____________________________________________________________________

You are now reading and posting on a user column on Newsvine.com. Please be aware that there are certain standards and expectations on this site, most of which are outlined in our Code of Honor.

Posts that violate the Newsvine Code of Honor, including posts that are racist, insulting, threaten violence, or are posted in all caps, bold, or other formats will be deleted.

All comments on this page will be subject to moderation according to the rules found in the Code of Honor. This means you may find your comments deleted. If that is the case, read the CoH and User Agreement to find out why.

To help produce a strong discussion please refrain from personal attacks, derogatory language, and off-topic remarks.

If you would like to learn more about Newsvine, and I strongly suggest you do take a moment to look around, you can find a mentor over here, or general help in the Newsvine Help Group.

Feel free to email me directly if you have a question or concern about the moderation of this article.

Lastly keep in mind that free speech laws do not apply at newsvine, as killfile explained in a classic seed here.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

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Published to:

  • Dennis P McCann's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: Bully No More!, Good News Week., MetaVine, Newsvine Community, Newsvine HONOR Vine, SuperVine!, Writing For Change
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (548)
Jump to discussion page: 1 2
Dennis P McCann

All constructive comments and suggestions are welcome.

  • 13 votes
#1 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 11:08 PM EST
Halifax Oliver

Like it much, the new comment reporting additions would be great, but as others have suggested before, an "uncollapse" option would be cool too. Waayyyy too many comments collapsed because they don't jive with the majority opinion, and are in no way inflammatory.

  • 12 votes
#1.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:29 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

There's no way the staff would give a column moderator the power to override the community. Too much potential for abuse. If people followed the CoH, ie, didn't report comments that weren't in violation, less comments would be collapsed, and the Community moderators would have more time to address those that were.

  • 8 votes
#1.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:33 AM EST
Halifax Oliver

No not the moderator, another option for us that read the comments. If ten people report it as "no vaue," or whatever the number is to collapse a comment, you could vote "uncollapse" or "of value" and it would be uncollapsed. This is not my suggestion, others have made it, I just like it. I'm sure they'd have better ideas for it than me.

  • 9 votes
#1.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:39 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

I can see that leading to collapse/uncollapse wars. People collapse a comment, the poster's friends uncollapse it, and so on. The existing apparatus, that of appealing the collapse to Tyler and Sally, would work fine if they had more time to get to those comments because they were spending less time dealing with stuff the community should handle on it's own.

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:43 AM EST
mstanley2265

I really don't like to see duplicate seeds/articles, though you have a point about getting different comments. A couple of times when I've thought about seeding a news item, the banner, this has already been done deal comes up. So the duplicate isn't really necessary anymore if people paid attention to the notice and checked it out. They must not do it. :)

The vulgar, obscene one is kind of open to personal interpretation. I figure if it's on YouTube, then it can't be too much either way, but then there are other's norms, high's and low's on the issues. YouTube does allow a broader interpretation so some of the vid's probably don't need to shown on NewsVine. Personal filter's should take care of most of the issue too.

And adding the additional on reporting, yes. The personal attack issue is very much front and center lately. IMO that some are cutting real close to the personal or taking comments too personal and retaliation follows. sighhh We wouldn't be human if we didn't have flaws.

I still would like a Hi! button, just to let someone know I see them :)

I'm not really positively understanding 'grenade trolling' though. Is that the "write a comment and never come back with any more comments"?

  • 6 votes
#1.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:43 AM EST
bore-head007

The first, Duplicate Story, was intended to keep Newsvine from becoming too cluttered by eliminating the same article from being seeded more than once.

I find it disrespectful when an article has been seeded, and it is seeded by another viner.

When notified , the response is usually an apology, along with the doolywhopper thingy never showed a notification. Just a pet peeve.

I would like to see folks be more respectful about that.

  • 8 votes
#1.6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:53 AM EST
mstanley2265

I'm trailing you bore, not intentional, just wanted to add that I really really don't like to see profanity in writing, bad enough with the caps thingies, but the written out is offensive to me. It also shows a lack of education. :)

  • 9 votes
#1.7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I'm not really positively understanding 'grenade trolling' though. Is that the "write a comment and never come back with any more comments"?

No, grenade trolling, the way Tyler uses it, is writing comments with words like "Rethuglicons" or "Democraps" as a way of pissing off any Republicans or Democrats that might be on the thread. Sort of a blanket insult that hits anyone whom it may apply to.

I find it disrespectful when an article has been seeded, and it is seeded by another viner.

That's the way we always saw it, too, and we tended to delete the duplicate seed(s), but it seems that people don't do that much these days.

I still would like a Hi! button, just to let someone know I see them :)

I hear they've got one of those on Facebook. You can poke people to your heart's content.

I'm trailing you bore, not intentional, just wanted to add that I really really don't like to see profanity in writing,

Is your filter on?

  • 11 votes
#1.8 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:04 PM EST
neenie1991

It also shows a lack of education. :)

I've always found that sensibility interesting. If someone uses profanity they must not be educated or at best not have a very extensive vocabulary? It's not just people with a high school education that swear and there are plenty of ivy league grads that can't put together a sentence.

  • 11 votes
#1.9 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:12 PM EST
bore-head007

just wanted to add that I really really don't like to see profanity in writing

I read ya, mstanley, and I do include profanity in some comments from time to time, but, some things that are profane will attract profanity. Like Dennis asked, filter on?

I use them for emphasis, not to insult any ones intelligence.

The lack of education is not a lack of intelligence.

  • 10 votes
#1.10 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:17 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

And as neenie said, educated people swear too.

Dammit.

The vulgar, obscene one is kind of open to personal interpretation.

Yep. Even the Supreme Court has never been able to define obscenity, and vulgar is whatever someone thinks it is. Your definition is probably not my definition.

  • 11 votes
#1.11 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:21 PM EST
mstanley2265

Yes, filter is on...but it must not be working very good this morning. haha on the rest, I know just heard That all my growing up years. :) one of my Dad's pet peeve's, cussing that is.

  • 5 votes
#1.12 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:23 PM EST
Boudicea

I recall once instead of cussing I used a bunch of symbols. Tyler responding telling me to just swear and anyone who is offended can use their profanity filter. I said 'Oh, HELL yea!"

  • 12 votes
#1.13 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:26 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Tyler responding telling me to just swear and anyone who is offended can use their profanity filter.

lol.

  • 11 votes
#1.14 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:40 PM EST
Lee-479062

If you wish to develop a list of hate sites, I would suggest using one less ideologically aligned than SPLC. As an alternative, use multiple lists from various groups across the ideological spectrum.

For the Inaccurate category, I've always viewed that as mostly an issue of divergence between the headline and the article.

  • 5 votes
#1.15 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:02 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

If you wish to develop a list of hate sites, I would suggest using one less ideologically aligned than SPLC. As an alternative, use multiple lists from various groups across the ideological spectrum.

Though I don't see the SPLC as ideologically aligned, I do see your point. After all, it was just a suggestion. Multiple sources would be a good idea.

For the Inaccurate category, I've always viewed that as mostly an issue of divergence between the headline and the article.

That's a good example of inaccuracy, ie, when people use the headline to editorialize and it no longer represents the content of the seed, but I wanted to point out that the seed itself can be inaccurate. There's a lot of disinformation and misinformation floating around these days. Do we really want that stuff here?

Newsvine is about Getting Smarter, not being inundated with people's agenda-driven opinions.

  • 8 votes
#1.16 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:07 PM EST
neenie1991

one of my Dad's pet peeve's, cussing that is.

My dad speaks fluent profanity. There we go into the nature/nurture? Schizzle.

  • 9 votes
#1.17 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:40 PM EST
Boudicea

Neenie

My dad speaks fluent profanity.

ROFLMAO

  • 4 votes
#1.18 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:20 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

He wouldn't happen to be from Chicago, would he? It's sort of the official language there.

  • 4 votes
#1.19 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:23 PM EST
neenie1991

;) I speak three languages fluently, English, profanity and snarcasm. I had a great upbringing.

  • 10 votes
#1.20 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:24 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Hey, me too! Oh, and a little Turkish.

  • 6 votes
#1.21 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:26 PM EST
bore-head007

Southie Boston Cursing

boston accent 1 Liners ( profanity properly used)

  • 5 votes
#1.22 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:50 PM EST
neenie1991

Wicked funny...

  • 5 votes
#1.23 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:56 PM EST
MsAubrey

I work in a shop full of men and my mother would make a whore blush.

I can't think of any cuss word or durogatory remark that makes me squirm. Racist remarks and blatant disregard for basic human respect? Oh, that will fire me up faster than a 100yr old barn full of gasoline and hay.

  • 5 votes
#1.24 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 4:06 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yeah. They're just words, after all. Random sounds with agreed upon meanings. If we all decided tomorrow that 'chair" was the worst thing anyone could say, people would be blushing if you said chair.

Chair them.

  • 7 votes
#1.25 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 4:11 PM EST
magz

I got yer sofa right here McCann.

And its leather.

  • 6 votes
#1.26 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:37 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Well chair you, dude.

By the way, my living room furniture is leather, actually. White leather.

  • 6 votes
#1.27 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:48 PM EST
magz

ummmm...how do you deal with coffee stains?

  • 4 votes
#1.28 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:06 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Don't have to. I practically live in my studio.

Besides, spilling coffee is a crime against humanity that I would never, ever commit.

  • 6 votes
#1.29 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:12 PM EST
magz

Besides, spilling coffee is a crime against humanity

Dominus vobiscum. Amen.

  • 7 votes
#1.30 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:27 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Et cum spiritu tuo.

  • 7 votes
#1.31 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:34 PM EST
Pat N

e pluribus unum.

  • 6 votes
#1.32 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:38 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

lol.

Man, I'm amazed I remembered that. I really shouldn't remember that.

  • 5 votes
#1.33 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:52 PM EST
magz

Too much euro. Not enough green.

  • 5 votes
#1.34 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 10:55 PM EST
mstanley2265

Sıkıldım yapacak bir ÅŸey yok

  • 6 votes
#1.35 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:14 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

So go paint or something...

  • 5 votes
#1.36 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:19 PM EST
There They Go Again

Man, I'm amazed I remembered that. I really shouldn't remember that.

Once you pick up those phrases, you never lose them. The ceremonial lost something poetic when they switched to English. Even 50 years later, after having been in a church only for weddings and funerals, I can still recall them and still hear them in my mind in old Fr. Van Colen's voice.

  • 8 votes
#1.37 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:19 PM EST
mstanley2265

Sıkıcı sıkıcı kimse gerçekten boyama ya da ÅŸiir zaten seviyor

  • 5 votes
#1.38 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:24 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Once you pick up those phrases, you never lose them.

Man, that's a scary thought.

Sıkıcı sıkıcı kimse gerçekten boyama ya da ÅŸiir zaten seviyor

Sure they do. A lot of people do.

  • 6 votes
#1.39 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:39 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Look what you started, magz. You've got me talking to people in two languages I don't even really speak.

  • 6 votes
#1.40 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:41 PM EST
There They Go Again

OK mstanley, I give up on that one. I can't even identify the language although it looks like it might be Polish or Russian. My knowledge of either is miniscule.

  • 5 votes
#1.41 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:36 AM EST
mstanley2265

%-)

  • 5 votes
#1.42 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:44 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

TTYA, Turkish.

  • 6 votes
#1.43 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 5:45 AM EST
Spikegary

Mstanley,

Painting isn't really that boring, is it?

BTW, Etva contacted me last night-I hope the info I provided might help a ittle-I'll be happy to help out if I can.

  • 5 votes
#1.44 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 7:31 AM EST
mstanley2265

contando conmigo Dennis? Benedicto, padre..:)

  • 4 votes
#1.45 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 7:32 AM EST
magz

Look what you started, magz. You've got me talking to people in two languages I don't even really speak

Um. Yeah. You could try moderating. I mean, before lauhal senses her name being typed.

  • 6 votes
#1.46 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:01 AM EST
MsAubrey

Ne parle. Je parle français, anglais et espagnol un peu.

  • 5 votes
#1.47 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:03 AM EST
mstanley2265

Spike, no it's not boring, it's just I was bored...sniff...I'm going to paint today, did the poem yesterday, so it's their turn...sniff, sniff...geez I need a Benadyrl...

absolument, MsAubrey, Bonjour, mon ami. vas tu?

  • 6 votes
#1.48 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:18 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Nope. Don't speak French.

before lauhal senses her name being typed.

Aw @!$%#, magz.

You could try moderating.

I am. In moderation.

  • 5 votes
#1.49 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:09 AM EST
MsAubrey

Bonjour, çava? Je comme çe comme ça. Il fait ici en Michigan.

  • 3 votes
#1.50 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 12:37 PM EST
There They Go Again

TTYA, Turkish.

That would have been my third choice, considering where you live.

  • 4 votes
#1.51 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 1:23 PM EST
mstanley2265

Je vais bien, que je vis dans l'ouest du Kentucky et c' est chaud ici un gros 50 degrés

Dennis, gönderdiÄŸim e-posta hakkında resmi sighhh

I think it makes for an interesting change in the routine of threads, /\ magz for the inspiration. Et ne nos inducas in tentationem. Unless it's interesting :)

  • 6 votes
#1.52 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 2:26 PM EST
MsAubrey

50?!?!?!?

Zip it. It's a balmy 39* right now in the Motor City. Best winter we've had in a LONG time. This morning was FRIDGED though.

  • 5 votes
#1.53 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 4:00 PM EST
Halifax Oliver

Currently 57 and sunny in Music City. T-shirt weather. J'adore. C'est awesome.

  • 4 votes
#1.54 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 4:15 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

36 (F) here, as as we call it in Europe, 2. (C)

  • 6 votes
#1.55 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 4:15 PM EST
Pat N

We actually hit 62 today. In Iowa, of all places.

Are we really discussing the weather? ☺

  • 5 votes
#1.56 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:33 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Um, yeah, it seems we are. At least we're doing it in English.

  • 7 votes
#1.57 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:39 PM EST
Pat N

Well....I can at least be grateful for that. I was faced with resorting to either Pig Latin or *Redneck*. And I have a hunch you would have understood the Pig Latin better.

  • 5 votes
#1.58 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:51 PM EST
mstanley2265

pssst, I worked on my paintings, put the more finished ones up..And yes, I'll quit talking about the weather...It is more fun to talk about your 'Resurrection' and tat's anyway. LOL

  • 6 votes
#1.59 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:52 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I was pretty fluent in Pig Latin as a kid, and I can follow along pretty well in Redneck, since I lived in TN for three years, but I'm not fluent in it. Now Painting, that's something I speak pretty well.

  • 6 votes
#1.60 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:56 PM EST
mstanley2265

Better than me, Tex has some good ones too and Vlad's dog...All of you are soooo good at it. sighhh

  • 4 votes
#1.61 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:58 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I don't really know those guys, but considering that I'm a professional artist and art teacher, I hope I'm pretty good at it.

  • 5 votes
#1.62 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 10:03 PM EST
mstanley2265

I know, and think it's great I got to meet you too and see some of your paintings...:)

I think Vlad's dog is or was an art teacher too. i know he sells paintings. Tex does all sorts and sells though I don't think he teaches. Me I give them away..lol There's someone else here on the Vine that is an artist, doesn't come to mind at the moment, Vlad's dog probably knows. He took a Vine vacation, so you probably knew him under his old name. :)

  • 5 votes
#1.63 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 10:06 PM EST
Pat N

I was pretty fluent in Pig Latin as a kid, and I can follow along pretty well in Redneck, since I lived in TN for three years, but I'm not fluent in it.

Ahhh yes. But I betchya can't speak Redneck Pig Latin.

  • 3 votes
#1.64 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 10:49 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Probably not.

  • 3 votes
#1.65 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:03 PM EST
bore-head007

Pig latin made easy.

  • 3 votes
#1.66 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 11:16 PM EST
lauhal

I sensed my name being typed.

  • 7 votes
#1.67 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:18 PM EST
Dubbya R

I sensed lauhal sensing that.

  • 5 votes
#1.68 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:23 PM EST
lauhal

That makes no sense.

  • 6 votes
#1.69 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:40 PM EST
mstanley2265

which is sensible

  • 6 votes
#1.70 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:43 PM EST
lauhal

Nonsense.

  • 7 votes
#1.71 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:44 PM EST
mstanley2265

I see said the blind man

  • 7 votes
#1.72 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:47 PM EST
lauhal

You see no-see-ums?

  • 6 votes
#1.73 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 12:56 PM EST
mstanley2265

ROFLOL (((((lauhal)))))

  • 6 votes
#1.74 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:02 PM EST
lauhal

:D~

  • 7 votes
#1.75 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:03 PM EST
Lee-479062

I'll see your no-see-ums and raise you a mosquito.

  • 7 votes
#1.76 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:06 PM EST
lauhal

You raise mosquitos? Are they cute when they're babies? Do you dress them in little outfits? :)

  • 7 votes
#1.77 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:08 PM EST
Lee-479062

Where I live, we barbeque them. Feeds a family of four if you have side dishes.

  • 5 votes
#1.78 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:14 PM EST
lauhal

What if I'm a vegetabletarian?

  • 6 votes
#1.79 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:16 PM EST
Spikegary

Nonsense = Current Pay Rate on Newsvine

  • 6 votes
#1.80 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 1:30 PM EST
mstanley2265

%-) and Dennis's Discussion

  • 5 votes
#1.81 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 2:38 PM EST
mstanley2265

goes South

  • 6 votes
#1.82 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 2:55 PM EST
MsAubrey

Yeah well...

Here's to you... mstanley... I am the walrus... I am the egg man... Wooo! Coo coo cachoo...

  • 6 votes
#1.83 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:23 PM EST
MsAubrey

How's that for Beatles drug induced non-sense?

  • 5 votes
#1.84 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:24 PM EST
mstanley2265

m with head buried under the covers...LOL

  • 7 votes
#1.85 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:31 PM EST
MsAubrey

But I bet I made you giggle.

  • 5 votes
#1.86 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:43 PM EST
mstanley2265

(I'm gonna regret this!), maybe but if Someone was under the covers With me, I'd really giggle..E2EG

diving back undercovers

  • 6 votes
#1.87 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 3:49 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Holy Nutjobs, Batman! I'm gone for a few days and come back to find you lot practically speaking in tongues! What did you DRINK on New Year's Eve, absinthe and antifreeze?!

  • 7 votes
#1.88 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:36 AM EST
mstanley2265

BeechHaven Wine then inhaled paint fumes painting...arghhhh

  • 7 votes
#1.89 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:47 AM EST
magz

What if I'm a vegetabletarian?

No. You're just plain vegetable.

Remember.

You will always be my Heinz.

  • 8 votes
#1.90 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:02 AM EST
mstanley2265

Mea culpa (for the visual I got After lauhal sees this)

  • 7 votes
#1.91 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:40 PM EST
lauhal

*snert*

  • 9 votes
#1.92 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 5:13 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

You will always be my Heinz.

Ketchup is not a vegetable, Ronnie, so apparently lauhal is a condiment.

  • 7 votes
#1.93 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 5:18 PM EST
magz

Dammit McCann. When was the last time you cooked something anyway?

  • 7 votes
#1.94 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:56 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yesterday. So there.

  • 6 votes
#1.95 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:58 PM EST
magz

Well..what the..ketchup is a vegetable condiment!

  • 5 votes
#1.96 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:10 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

WTF is a vegetable condiment? Is that a condiment made from vegetables, or a condiment you put on vegetables? Or both?

Either way - it's a condiment.

  • 6 votes
#1.97 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:13 PM EST
mstanley2265

Our Dennis, Heintz is a steak sauce... which is Why I said mea culpa...magz is leading us into Temptation. Even if my sinus and head feel like a Basketball, squinty eyed look around, Temptation remains.

  • 5 votes
#1.98 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:18 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

magz is leading us Temptation

What else is new?

  • 4 votes
#1.99 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:20 PM EST
mstanley2265

It depends on what he's drinking I'd thunk

  • 4 votes
#1.100 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:22 PM EST
bore-head007

ketchup

it's a condiment.

It's an enhancement.

It's perfect for fried scallops.

Deep Golden Brown Fried scallops! Juicy Sweet Fried scallops.

  • 4 votes
#1.101 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:26 PM EST
mstanley2265

bore-head missed your dinner?

  • 5 votes
#1.102 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:27 PM EST
Lee-479062

And that brings us all back around to puppies................

  • 6 votes
#1.103 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:29 PM EST
mstanley2265

Hush puppies with onions, now those are good

  • 5 votes
#1.104 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:31 PM EST
There They Go Again

Doggone BH, you're tempting me again with my favorite seafood. In spite of their ridiculous gun laws, that picture almost makes it worth while to make a trip to Massachusetts. Or maybe I'll just go to Red Lobster, it's probably cheaper but I'll bet the Scallops there aren't as good as the ones ish brings in.

  • 4 votes
#1.105 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:35 PM EST
Lee-479062

mstanley, are times that hard that you have to eat shoes? Even onions won't help that taste good. Please tell me they are new!

  • 4 votes
#1.106 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:39 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

In spite of their ridiculous gun laws, that picture almost makes it worth while to make a trip to Massachusetts.

Are you planning on shooting some scallops?

  • 5 votes
#1.107 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:43 PM EST
mstanley2265

Southern delicacy, like Rocky Mountain oysters and Not made outta Shoes..geez that visual is stomach churning

  • 5 votes
#1.108 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:43 PM EST
bore-head007

mstanley2265

bore-head missed your dinner?

Just doing my part to get you to go buy some and support U S fishermen. Some of your fellow viners land the very best!

There They Go Again

I'll bet the Scallops there aren't as good as the ones ish brings in

When I went to New Bedford to shoot pictures of ish2's Endurance following his record setting scallop trip, he sent me home with 10 lbs of "White Gold" and they were of exceptional quality. Real big sea scallops!

  • 4 votes
#1.109 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:50 PM EST
Lee-479062

mstanley, try making them with self rising flour. It makes them much lighter and they get done all the way through.

Bore-head, the sea scallops beat bay scallops hands down. I like them about silver dollar size. I don't put ketchup on them, though. Sauteed in butter is my favorite.

  • 4 votes
#1.110 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:07 PM EST
mstanley2265

the good scallops don't make it to Western KY, but I'll be in the NY this fall at Our Neale's and then on up to Syracuse to see a friend. So, I'll more than likely get to eat some good ones then. :) which is what I said below and now I'm losing it again..nite

  • 4 votes
#1.111 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:10 PM EST
There They Go Again

Are you planning on shooting some scallops?

Nope, but I don't generally go to places where I'm not licensed to carry a firearm. I've found over the years that it's a pretty dangerous world. The way to make it less dangerous is to only give an aggressor one shot at me before he dies.

When I went to New Bedford to shoot pictures of ish2's Endurance following his record setting scallop trip, he sent me home with 10 lbs of "White Gold" and they were of exceptional quality. Real big sea scallops!

The only possible comment on that one is: YUM. I don't have what the shrinks call an addictive personality, but with that many Scallops available, I could develop one.

  • 4 votes
#1.112 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:11 PM EST
wowed by the force

Scallopes = EWWW. Now, if we had some white chocolate gold, then we would have feast.

"Sound the feasting horn!"

Bump- buh- bump

"The feast is... Ruined!"

Sad Bump- buh- bump

  • 4 votes
#1.113 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:39 AM EST
Dubbya R

Are you planning on shooting some scallops?

Holy Galloping Scallops Batman!

  • 4 votes
#1.114 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:40 PM EST
MsAubrey

What did you DRINK on New Year's Eve, absinthe and antifreeze?!

Shan... I had hot tea with honey. ☺

  • 4 votes
#1.115 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:42 PM EST
MsAubrey

Scallops = EWWW

I 2nd that.

  • 5 votes
#1.116 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:43 PM EST
bore-head007

Shucking scallops

  • 4 votes
#1.117 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:04 PM EST
mstanley2265

At least they didn't Look Too slimy like oysters, (I was eating a banana, all that talk about food made me hungry).... What'd they do with all those shells?

  • 4 votes
#1.118 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:10 PM EST
bore-head007

They get tossed back in.

They taste the best right from the shell, raw.

They are addicting.

  • 5 votes
#1.119 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:24 PM EST
mstanley2265

hmmm, you'd think they could be of some use somewhere for something. Addicting?, like I watched my Dad with the oyster deal, Not happening to Me!

  • 4 votes
#1.120 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:29 PM EST
MJL-3

oysters are just plain nasty.

  • 5 votes
#1.121 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:33 PM EST
Lee-479062

MJL-3, that's blasphemy. Oysters on the half shell are on the menu for tomorrow night. Just add crackers, cocktail sauce (make it your self at the table) and a draft beer.

Now possum on the half shell is a different story.

  • 3 votes
#1.122 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:39 PM EST
mstanley2265

Don't I know it...we even had to Have oyster dressing Thanksgiving and Christmas. But Dad had One Firm rule, Everything got tasted, no exceptions well except for the babies.

  • 2 votes
#1.123 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:40 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Now possum on the half shell is a different story.

That sounds like it should be served on hubcaps.

  • 5 votes
#1.124 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:43 PM EST
MJL-3

Lee,

it is like swallowing a goober. No thank you. Sorry.

mstanley,

my parents did too, but when I had to try it I threw up. So they sorta changed the rule a little.

  • 4 votes
#1.125 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:44 PM EST
mstanley2265

We got soo use to weird stuff, couldn't throw up anymore. sighhh Frog's legs, raccoon, snake (have No idea where he came up with that one) fish and that included Eel, And snails, ....vegetables that looked stranger than aliens, etc. etc makes me ughh shiver, thinking about it...but the 'fresh' cow's milk that had an 'onion' flavor had to be the All time worse.

  • 3 votes
#1.126 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:48 PM EST
MJL-3

mstanley

My dad would go out and make us eat dandilion greens, yuk.

  • 3 votes
#1.127 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:59 PM EST
mstanley2265

So, you got the Alien stuff too. I figured out later that his being in WWIi in Europe led to all of that cause my paternal grandparents weren't too bad except for making hogshead cheese and farm stuff like that....urp sorry

  • 3 votes
#1.128 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:01 PM EST
MJL-3

Yep, we had some pretty weird stuff.

But when it came to pickeled pigs feet I throw a fit. Got spanked but I didn't have to try it.

  • 4 votes
#1.129 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:04 PM EST
mstanley2265

That's where the "Lectures" came in, we gave up...and ate whatever was in the taste testing. ugh and Yes I ate pickled pigs feet...But not ever after I left home...

  • 3 votes
#1.130 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:10 PM EST
MJL-3

My dad was a artist at lectures, OMG he could go on for hours.

  • 3 votes
#1.131 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:41 PM EST
mstanley2265

They Had to know each other then....:) omgoodness

  • 3 votes
#1.132 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:47 PM EST
MJL-3

Could be, ya never know

But my dad could tell the funniest stories, he would have the Lone Ranger, Bat man, Zorro all the charactors on tv in it. He could keep us occupied for hours.

  • 3 votes
#1.133 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:36 PM EST
mstanley2265

Mine did too, with 8 there was Always something to be taken care of..me the oldest got a lot of taken care of..lol chasing brothers, chasing brothers, actually chasing brothers.

  • 5 votes
#1.134 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:05 PM EST
MJL-3

There were 8 kids.

I am the second to the youngest

Two oldest were boys

My dad always said with 6 girls , he never got to use the bathroom.

  • 7 votes
#1.135 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:39 PM EST
mstanley2265

4 boys 4 girls...two bathrooms ROFLOL

  • 6 votes
#1.136 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:41 PM EST
MsAubrey

. But Dad had One Firm rule, Everything got tasted, no exceptions well except for the babies.

But babies are so tasty!

lol. ☺

I have always LOVED frog legs.
You can keep the oysters. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little.

I was an only child until age 7... Then I got 4 stepbros that acted more "girly" than I did. [Once HS age] They'd spend HOURS making sure every hair on their head was perfect before school. HS for me? I threw my hair in a ponytail, put on some sweat pants and a t-shirt [sweatshirt over that during cold weather], and went straight to auto shop. 1.5 bath in our house growing up.

  • 5 votes
#1.137 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:57 AM EST
Lee-479062

1 bath growing up. It wasn't inside.

  • 4 votes
#1.138 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:59 AM EST
mstanley2265

haha MsAubrey, never got That hungry, though they'd offer me their bottles once in awhile. It was one of those I wanna try what You have.. Didn't happen. yuk...

ahhh Lee, that was tough. I didn't know people didn't have 'inside' plumbing until I was 19 or floors that had cracks between the boards.

Dad was a builder (not his regular job), he kept expanding the house... out of necessity. 1/2 bath was his...lol the other two 1 boys 1 girls. :)

  • 3 votes
#1.139 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:35 PM EST
Lee-479062

It wasn't tough. It was character building.

  • 3 votes
#1.140 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:45 PM EST
mstanley2265

Having four younger brothers was character building :)

  • 4 votes
#1.141 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:55 PM EST
Reply
Boudicea

Hi Dennis, and Happy New Year.

You've got some really good ideas. I, too, would LOVE to see the "personal attack" option and a "poor moderation" button. Recently there was an incident which resulted in a "ban/suspended user" list that had multiple posters outright accusing me of really terrible things and the moderator LET THOSE COMMENTS STAND. How that's not CoH violations I do not know, but when taken to task, the moderator said he would never "protect" me on his articles and I was fair game. Those same people have been attacking me on other articles since. HOW is this allowed?

  • 7 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:02 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

How that's not CoH violations I do not know, but when taken to task, the moderator said he would never "protect" me on his articles and I was fair game

Without seeing the incident, it sounds like that moderator was in violation of CoH 4...and on Newsvine, people are never "fair game."

HOW is this allowed?

Quite simply, it's not. It happens because people aren't doing their jobs.

Happy New Year.

  • 7 votes
#2.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:08 PM EST
neenie1991

I'm certain you reported it Boudicea (kjmgirl). I think many people were ticked about the TJG banning and how it occurred (not that it wasn't coming). Some people felt as though she had been sideswiped. Not so much. I don't know that Tyler/Sally have had an opportunity to address much of what's been going on. I don't recall SRO saying he wouldn't "protect" you. I'll have to go back and look. It was poor form by some viners.

  • 6 votes
#2.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:17 PM EST
Spikegary

I said on another one of Dennis' articles, some of our more 'active' seeders, or as I referred to them, Spray Seeders, seem to think they can throw a seed on and one or two comments and walk away as they have another 57 articles to seed that day. Very frustrating as they generally have an agenda and never check back to see where the comments are going and to keep it on track. Unfortunately, reporting these folks to the Mods doesn't seem to have any effect, as they must be money generators for the Lords and Masters at MSNBC.

I would like to see the guides get a little more responsibility delegated to them-especially the power to assist the Mods in conflict resolution-might make things a little more equitable to all posters, since no one seems to be willing to spend anymore money on the site....

  • 11 votes
#2.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:59 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

seem to think they can throw a seed on and one or two comments and walk away as they have another 57 articles to seed that day. Very frustrating as they generally have an agenda and never check back to see where the comments are going and to keep it on track.

That's where the Absent/Poor Moderation tool comes in....

  • 9 votes
#2.4 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:24 AM EST
bore-head007

But.

Then again.

If everyone followed the code, It should run on autopilot, and never run aground!

  • 7 votes
#2.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 10:27 AM EST
There They Go Again

, It should run on autopilot, and never run aground!

Sure it would BH but, does that happen off Nantucket? I really doubt it. Always gotta have somebody with a brain in the pilothouse.

  • 5 votes
#2.6 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:38 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

It used to happen here. Calvin had a pretty easy job as moderator, because we made it easy for him. I feel sorry for Tyler and Sally....

  • 9 votes
#2.7 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:53 PM EST
Reply
Pat N

The only proposed change that I think might cause a problem is adding "hate site" to the article/seed reporting function. I can see that giving people a way to collapse articles even more than they do now, by claiming FOX News or AlterNet is a "hate site". We've see some individuals with extreme sensitivity that views even the most modest of disagreement as a "personal attack". What's to stop them from claiming a site that disagrees with their ideology is a "hate site"?

As far as the comment reporting fuction changes go....Love 'em. I'm on board with those 100%.

  • 9 votes
#3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:33 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

That's why I said it would require a consensus, at least among the staff, if not the users, and suggested the SPLC list as a jumping off point. I'd like to see a list - sites you cannot seed from. Obviously everyone would agree that Stormfront, the KKK, Westboro Baptist Church, etc., belong on that list. The question would be what else belongs there.

FOX and Alternet, no way. You don't have to agree with them, but they aren't hate sites.

We've see some individuals with extreme sensitivity that views even the most modest of disagreement as a "personal attack".

You know, recently there was a series of articles that explained all that stuff. They really should read it.

  • 9 votes
#3.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:46 PM EST
Boudicea

Actually, Dennis, I pointed a couple of people toward those articles but lets be honest - the biggest offenders don't really care.

  • 5 votes
#3.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:54 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

but lets be honest - the biggest offenders don't really care.

True. But in the long run, it all evens out, because the biggest offenders end up getting themselves banned, sooner or later.

  • 9 votes
#3.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:02 PM EST
Confer

Dennis I trust you see this comment as on topic. I would appreciate knowing what the reality of the consistent "them-or-us" politics is. My read centers around two impresssions: I believe the vitriol seen on here is the bi-product of the need/desire for votes, fostered by being paid for being over-the-top. In addition, the COH and agreements mean absolutely nothing to a membership that is simply out of control and the vulgar and chronically immature dictate the experiences here.

  • 7 votes
#3.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:48 PM EST
Halifax Oliver

I believe the vitriol seen on here is the bi-product of the need/desire for votes, fostered by being paid for being over-the-top.

Truest words I ever done read.

  • 5 votes
#3.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:07 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I believe the vitriol seen on here is the bi-product of the need/desire for votes, fostered by being paid for being over-the-top.

One problem, for which we've never really found a solution, is that the system rewards the wrong thing - rather than the best, most informative articles being featured, the most sensationalist, over the top stuff gets that instead. As long as the standard is popularity (votes, comments) it will be this way. If we could find a way where people would support good, solid writing, rather than controversy, it wouldn't be this way, but unfortunately human nature is such that we stop to look at train wrecks and don't pay attention to the trains that run smoothly.

In short - the problem is us. If enough people were to stay away from the garbage, the garbage would be less popular, and in time, people would realize that garbage is not the key to success.

Those of us who have been here a long time have learned that garbage may lead to short-term popularity, but it does so at the expense of longevity.

In addition, the COH and agreements mean absolutely nothing to a membership that is simply out of control and the vulgar and chronically immature dictate the experiences here.

A big part of why I'm writing this series. Newsvine has a troll problem, and it's up to the rest of us to take this site back.

  • 12 votes
#3.6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:17 PM EST
Lee-479062

I believe you will find that once popularity is no longer the standard, the revenue which drives this site will dry up and so will the site.

I would suggest that, if you believe it is an economically viable idea, creating a site just for quality writing and discussion of a civil nature. Like newspapers, ad revenue is king and is driven by the number of subscribers and their demographics.

  • 7 votes
#3.7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I would suggest that, if you believe it is an economically viable idea, creating a site just for quality writing and discussion of a civil nature.

We did. It was called Newsvine.

You're right, popularity determines what gets featured, and leads to ad revenue. But who determines what is popular? We do.

Personally, I tend to stay away from the sensationalized yellow-journalism crap, and try to seek out quality writing and unbiased reporting. Not always easy, but possible.

See, I don't care what Blogger X thinks about a certain event or what it means. I'll use the Anders Breivik incident I used in the article.

When that happened, I didn't go to the seeds that told people what Pam Geller or whomevers take on it was. I went to Reuters, and read a news report about it.

We're told to seed as close to the source as possible. When that event happened, I searched out a news source, not a blogger's opinion. I can form my own opinions.

  • 11 votes
#3.8 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:11 PM EST
Dubbya R

This story,['Nobody Understands Debt'], is currently being seeded in the 'Top Seeds-NYTimes' area by three different viners at the same time. It would be nice if that could be prevented.

DPM...the system rewards the wrong thing - rather than the best, most informative articles being featured, the most sensationalist, over the top stuff gets that instead.

Agreed. I don't have the 'big' answer, but if I can offer a small suggestion for slowing down the influx of sensationalism...convince the vine's management to limit the amount of characters allowed for a headline. Almost inevitably the longer headlines are the sensationalist ones.

  • 9 votes
#3.9 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 1:00 AM EST
mstanley2265

Dennis, did you read my poem? hmmm I know you're busy but if you can I'd like it. :)

  • 4 votes
#3.10 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 1:50 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Dubbya, find out which one has the earliest time stamp, then report the rest as "Duplicate Story."

convince the vine's management to limit the amount of characters allowed for a headline.

Not a bad idea at all. You might want to send it in as a site suggestion.

mstanley, No, not yet, but I will asap.

  • 9 votes
#3.11 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:02 AM EST
Halifax Oliver

I reported one yesterday as "duplicate story," but it had well over 100 comments by the end of the day, so I'm not too certain if it will disappear.

  • 4 votes
#3.12 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:14 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Just make sure when you do that that you are indeed reporting the duplicate. I check the time stamps. Whichever came first, I report the other(s).

  • 6 votes
#3.13 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:26 AM EST
Dubbya R

...convince the vine's management to limit the amount of characters allowed for a headline.

Not a bad idea at all. You might want to send it in as a site suggestion.

Done.

More voices, from those that agree, would help the thought gain traction.

...find out which one has the earliest time stamp, then report the rest as "Duplicate Story."

Yes, but we shouldn't need to. The existing 'automatic' tools seem to need improvement, and doing so would allow the community to spend its time focusing on the major CoH issues you've tackled with your series; instead of minor ones like this, as well as the inflammatory/excessively long headline issue.

I'll drop that line of thought for now, because I didn't intend to drag the thread off-topic.

  • 5 votes
#3.14 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:20 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

The existing 'automatic' tools seem to need improvement,

They always have. We had the doppleganger, but that didn't work very well. Now we get the warning box that something 'may' have already been seeded, but more often than not, when you check it, it's a different story entirely.

It's a hard thing to automate. Unless it's exactly the same URL, it's never going to work as intended.

So it comes down to us. We have to be honorable enough to, when we find we've seeded a duplicate, just delete the damn thing.

  • 6 votes
#3.15 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:28 PM EST
Reply
RAC 0129

As I had indicated some collaboration on this, better pony up at least a suggestion or two. Put a lot of thought into this and had laid out something which started to get rather complicated very quickly. After reading Dennis recommendations on the Article/Seed tools, I would say I am in general agreement. As far as the Comment reporting tool, I had started down this path,

  • COH 1 violation
  • COH 2 violation
  • COH 3 violation
  • COH 4 violation
  • COH 5 violation
  • User Agreement Violation
  • Advertising
  • Ignore This Author

Seemed overkill. Rethought it and came up with the following:

  • CoH violation
  • User Agreement Violation
  • Advertisement
  • Ignore This Author

Again, after reading Dennis' suggestion, would be good to go on those as well. Might be possible to add the CoH as parentheses.

  • Attempted Derail
  • Personal Attack (COH 1)
  • Grenade Trolling
  • Misconduct/Unlawful
  • Advertising
  • Ignore This Author
  • 5 votes
Reply#4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:53 PM EST
Dennis P McCann
  • CoH violation
  • User Agreement Violation
  • Advertisement
  • Ignore This Author

The only problem I see with those is that they are a bit vague. CoH violation, for example - which part? Overall, though, it looks like we were thinking along the same lines.

  • Attempted
  • Derail Personal Attack (COH 1)
  • Grenade Trolling
  • Misconduct/Unlawful
  • Advertising
  • Ignore This Author

Again, after reading Dennis' suggestion, would be good to go on those as well. Might be possible to add the CoH as parentheses.

Technically, 1, 2 and 5 are CoH violations, while 2 and 3 are UA violations.

  • 7 votes
#4.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:57 PM EST
RAC 0129

Yep - went back and forth quite a bit between the two approaches. In the end, think your list probably makes the most sense without getting cumbersome. Good job as usual.

  • 7 votes
#4.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:00 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Thank you, good sir. (I'm assuming)

  • 5 votes
#4.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:02 PM EST
RAC 0129

Thank you, good sir. (I'm assuming)

<Looks down. Checks things out ... Still there.> Yep!

  • 8 votes
#4.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 1:30 PM EST
Reply
Bad Fish

I am glad you brought this up because i get called a "tool" all the time and i would like to report it.

  • 12 votes
Reply#5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

lol. I didn't even realize the double entendre in the title until I got an email that pointed it out. I meant tools for reporting, not reporting...um, tools.

  • 9 votes
#5.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:19 PM EST
neenie1991

It is in the running. I should start a list.

  • 6 votes
#5.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 2:43 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Now would be the time, considering we're only two days into the year.

And remember, always use the reporting tools when reporting the tools.

  • 9 votes
#5.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:17 PM EST
neenie1991

I'd have to start a group or article. So I guess so far you are #1.

  • 6 votes
#5.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 3:35 PM EST
mightyj

Tool Reporting is a serious business.

We could use both more tools to report with and less tools to report on.

(Book Mark comment :)

  • 10 votes
#5.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:49 PM EST
Reply
Confer

Dennis I appreciate your "speaking" to the popularity of a given article/seed and I get how it now works regarding the link between sensationalism, poor substance, votes and the cheezy end result.

I believe that there is a way to isolate the clowns in this circus and I know that you would be a key to identifying what that might be.. I have expected that participation in a "managed" group would be a logical answer, but I am ignorant of where this might be found. If those of us who came on Newsvine to discuss quality offerings, had a venue to do that, I would be optimistic about the popularity of same. The key would be to have the COH and agreements the responsibility of all involved. Without question, the present monitoring tasks are past the abilities of two people to manage.

  • 4 votes
Reply#6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:23 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

There have been many attempts at doing just that - setting up a group where serious people can talk about issues free from the sensationalism, trolling and other distractions. They always tend to fail for a variety of reasons - first, the group owner is unsure of who he's letting in until it's too late. Second, getting a sufficient number of group members to all go to the same seed or article to discuss it never seems to work.

The end result is usually a few people sitting on a group tab with no one else to talk to.

I may be a hopeless optimist, but I really believe that Newsvine could regain it's former glory, and do so rather easily. That's why I wrote the series on the CoH and this article. I believe that if the changes proposed in the last article, and those proposed here were to be implemented, it would lead to moderators and commenters alike actually following the rules (or facing consequences for not doing so) which would benefit Newsvine overall. I also believe it would cut the Community moderators workload drastically, freeing them up to do their actual jobs, instead of spending so much time doing ours for us.

  • 7 votes
#6.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:37 PM EST
Confer

I found the same in the groups that I joined. I was hoping you knew of a remedy to what now exists.

I used to see far more of us trying to change behaviour by suggesting to many that if we discussed our various positions, the Vine could be improved. I only found one "Viner"who was interested and as it turned out we agreed the experience was productive.

Ignoring those who are here for the wrong reasons, does not impact those that have hijacked the grand potential of Newsvine. Reporting violators does not have the necessary cause and effect imagined, for reasons you understand.

I have a sense that your motion for change(s) have to be approved. It would amaze me that the sensation-filled headlines, seeds and articles that are attention grabbers for votes and as a result, advertising revenue, guides the outcome.

The only thing I have left to suggest is that you map out the best method for adjusting the status-quo using what you know about the "mechanics" at hand. I am only familiar with the ! which does not appear to have enough horsepower. It would be worthwhile to devote time on what I would hope could be a collective undertaking. Thanks again for your valuable input.

  • 5 votes
#6.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:37 PM EST
Halifax Oliver

I may be a hopeless optimist, but I really believe that Newsvine could regain it's former glory, and do so rather easily

Seeing the same people seeding the same sensational, angry headlines from the same, tired, boring sites, and the grand multitude of angry, boring comments they get every time, I guess you could colour me a pessimist.

  • 3 votes
#6.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:47 PM EST
Lee-479062

Just to get a sense of the number of subscribers (members) of NV, I did a users search for just "Lee". I got a list of over 150 pages.

With that level of numbers, I think you have a rough row to hoe to try to go back. I'm guessing it is a case of accept it as it is, with maybe a little tweaking. Trying to rally the troops will have a little benefit, but too limited to declare victory. Notice that even on this series of articles, as worthwhile as they are, the traffic is such a low percentage of the total as too give faint hope, at best.

I hope I am completely wrong and will continue to refrain, as best I can, from COH violations.

  • 4 votes
#6.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:54 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Seeing the same people seeding the same sensational, angry headlines from the same, tired, boring sites, and the grand multitude of angry, boring comments they get every time,

Don't patronize them. Stay away from those articles and seeds, stay away from the people who post those articles and seeds. Find writers who are interested in quality and endeavor to produce good content. When you find them, watchlist them, and visit their columns frequently. Befriend them. Defriend the yellow journalist types - in short, support quality, and boycott garbage.

And then imagine what would happen if others did the same.

The only thing I have left to suggest is that you map out the best method for adjusting the status-quo using what you know about the "mechanics" at hand.

My answer above, and the suggestions I made in the last article and this one, would do just that. If we stop rewarding controversy, and report all violations, while at the same time rewarding quality, this will be a different place.

With that level of numbers, I think you have a rough row to hoe to try to go back. I'm guessing it is a case of accept it as it is, with maybe a little tweaking.

Those numbers are misleading, though, since the majority of those people are probably no longer active, and many never were.

  • 6 votes
#6.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:18 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Something else...

There are ways to help quality content move up the Vine. If you see a well written article, clip it to your column, and clip it to any relevant groups of which you are a member. If you know of other viners interested in the topic, email them a link. Help it get exposure.

If you see a violation, always report it, without fail.

And if you agree with the proposals I made in the last article and this one, click report bug, select site suggestion, send them a link and tell them you think it's a good idea.

The Vine is broken, but we can fix it.

  • 9 votes
#6.6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:27 PM EST
Halifax Oliver

Don't patronize them.

Not.

Stay away from those articles and seeds, stay away from the people who post those articles and seeds.

Who says I don't? Rarely do I go to articles I know for certain I will be annoyed with. The problem isn't reading them, its that they dominate the front page, encouraging others to go to them.

  • 5 votes
#6.7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:03 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I'm not saying that you do. My point is that if enough people were to do that, those articles wouldn't be on the front page in the first place.

We need to support quality any way we can, and marginalize the crap anyway we can. That's how we fix this place.

  • 8 votes
#6.8 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:07 PM EST
Halifax Oliver

We need to support quality any way we can, and marginalize the crap anyway we can. That's how we fix this place.

I shall get to work.

  • 6 votes
#6.9 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:10 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Cool. Really cool.

  • 7 votes
#6.10 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:14 PM EST
Spikegary

When I see the Top News Page and see stuff like this:

Ron Paul: The Poster Boy For The GOP's Assault On Compassion
(Seeded By Grae)
Florida school cafeterias could get corporate sponsors | jacksonville.com
The Jacksonville Times-Union (Seeded By eElementary)
Iranian Website: This Is How We'll Close Strait of Hormuz
"Nobody Likes A Liar" - by Mike Rivero | Before It's News (Seeded By Xziled)
Ohio Earthquake Linked To Fracking Injection Wells
Think Progress (Seeded By newbroom)
Articles: Why the Left Fears You
American Thinker (Seeded By proud2bconservative)
In Iowa, Clown Car Hits Bumps on Super-PAC Highway
(Seeded By EastLaw)

I always look down to see if I have all eggs and the milk in my cart before I cash out.....if you get my meaning.....

Scary thing? This is actually a little better than what's normally there.

  • 7 votes
#6.11 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 10:05 AM EST
Reply
VerbalBarb

I want an article/seed report button that says:

Hateful, mean-spirited and devisive crap that runs contrary to the spirit of Newsvine.

Come to think of it, the comment report button could use it, too.

  • 9 votes
#7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:44 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

That's a bit long. Can you boil it down to a couple of words?

  • 4 votes
#7.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:50 PM EST
VerbalBarb

That's a bit long. Can you boil it down to a couple of words?

Devisive horse@!$%#.

  • 11 votes
#7.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:52 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I like that one. I usually user the malicious user option to report that.

  • 8 votes
#7.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 6:55 PM EST
Confer

VerbalBarb since there doesn't exist the button you suggested, your long version vis-a-vis the short one, I find sends the better message. May it be used by others?

  • 6 votes
#7.4 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:21 PM EST
Boudicea

I would like your permission to use the long version

  • 6 votes
#7.5 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:35 PM EST
Confer

Dear Lady, Barb's permission is hoped for. What I have been replying with doesn't even approach her fine offering. A message is best received if seen or heard often enough.

  • 6 votes
#7.6 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:42 PM EST
CL1

Hateful, mean-spirited and devisive crap that runs contrary to the spirit of Newsvine.

Like, VB's point, "what runs contrary" to fostering healthy debate, is also my agenda.

But, Dennis, your idea of what the CoH is spelling out --is not to censure opinions, even if they are divisive or perceived as mean-spirited, but rather to state those negative opinions such that they aren't attacking the discussion partner. Correct? So, you would be saying something different than VB's point, as I interpret both of you.

  • 5 votes
#7.7 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:46 PM EST
CL1

..I'm referring to comments, not article content. Oh wait, are they one and the same, as you and 'iar' were discussing? :)

  • 4 votes
#7.8 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:59 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

CL, please don't confuse the CoH revisions I proposed with this article. There I removed ambiguity without changing the existing rules. Here, I'm advocating better tools for reporting content that has no part on this site.

There's a big difference between mean-spirited and hateful. Hate-based content is prohibited under the UA, in the section I quoted in the above article. Having a tool to report such content is just common sense.

Divisive is a rather broad term. Of the tools I suggested above, many of them could be seen as tools for reporting divisive content. I'm more worried about actual, hate-based articles and seeds, as defined in the UA and the article above.

  • 7 votes
#7.9 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

..I'm referring to comments, not article content. Oh wait, are they one and the same, as you and 'iar' were discussing? :)

That was a conversation about blockquoting. It's not germane here.

No, they are not the same in this instance, as an article/seed is not a comment, and different reporting tools apply. Did you read the article?

  • 5 votes
#7.10 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:04 PM EST
CL1

I didn't use the word "hate". I used the words "mean-spirited" and divisive as VB, did. "mean-spirited" could be a perception, as you and others have purported many times. That was the point -- I was only pointing out what you and others endlessly did previously.

I'm not confusing the articles at all. I'm just pointing out the contradiction. I'm sorry my "point" was lost.

_____________________

You're right about the blockquoting issue --- sorry about that.

Yes, I read it. But, I still see the contradictions.. Imo, the reason why Nv has so many users complaining about 'fairness' is due to the many contradictions that exist.

  • 5 votes
#7.11 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:05 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

There's no contradiction, since the only person even mentioning "mean spirited" content is you. No one has advocated in any way for a prohibition on what you see as mean spirited.

  • 6 votes
#7.12 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:09 PM EST
CL1

I took "mean-spirited" from VB's comment, Dennis.

How do you know what "I see" as mean-spirited? It would only be a perception! :)

  • 7 votes
#7.13 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:12 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

OK, but you omitted the important part:

that runs contrary to the spirit of Newsvine.


How do you know what "I see" as mean-spirited? It would only be a perception! :)

I don't, and for the reason you just stated. Perhaps you've noticed that in the last article and in this one the proposed revision were written with the intention of removing ambiguity. The current CoH, as well as the reporting tools, are exceedingly vague in some areas. That is precisely the problem I'm trying to remedy.

  • 6 votes
#7.14 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:22 PM EST
CL1

Dennis, I wasn't wanting to get off on the wrong foot with you in this article. I was trying to make a point, and expose the contradictions of allowing derogatory commentary via the CoH (as long as the negative remarks don't attack the "person"), yet turning around and giving us buttons to place judgements on others words that we perceive as " divisive and mean-spirited". I don't think it's possible to have a "uniform" understanding of what constitutes an - attack, what is divisive, and what is mean-spirited... In other words, you can't have 50K (the number of Nv members?) moderators on a site, just like we couldn't run the country with 50K presidents.

I'm in favor of doing away with what's wrong -- do away with community buttons.

  • 4 votes
#7.15 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:28 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I was trying to make a point, and expose the contradictions of allowing derogatory commentary via the CoH (as long as the negative remarks don't attack the "person"), yet turning around and giving us buttons to place judgements on others words that we perceive as " divisive and mean-spirited".

Nowhere in the article did I suggest that. That was VerbalBarb's suggestion.

In other words, you can't have 50K (the number of Nv members?) moderators on a site

And yet we do, as that is the model that Newsvine was built on. We are all moderators. And trust me on this, because I've seen it - the system works, but only when the members use it properly.

I'm in favor of doing away with what's wrong -- do away with community buttons.

You're in favor of doing away with all reporting tools? Seriously? If that's true, you're on the wrong site. You might want to try Digg.

  • 4 votes
#7.16 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:35 PM EST
CL1

I've been here three years and two months, and the same problems exist, despite Tyler's excellent attempts at spelling out exactly what they did wrong. The point? The CoH allows us to attack with our words, and users that are reporting those attacks don't 'all' have the same understanding of what an attacking comment truly is. Even if we could somehow get every user on the same page of understanding -- Tyler and Sally will still have their own perceptions of the commentary that could differ from ours. In fact, some of those examples I gave you, about generalizations, that you said should be Ok because they didn't attack the "person" -- I've seen Tyler comment on similar as inflammatory.

I try not to be guilty of the reasons the 'buttons' were created --- so I don't think telling me to go to Digg follows the point. The point I was making is that all of these suspensions that some keep whining about, will always happen as long as there are community buttons. You want to read inane whiny articles ? Fine. Keep the buttons. :)

  • 4 votes
#7.17 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:49 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

The CoH allows us to attack with our words

No it doesn't.

The point I was making is that all of these suspensions that some keep whining about, will always happen as long as there are community buttons. You want to read inane whiny articles ? Fine. Keep the buttons. :)

And if we lose the buttons, the spammers will be free to spam, people will seed from hate sites and write hate filled articles without recourse, personal attacks will be absolutely fine...in short, we''ll have total anarchy while Tyler and Sally stare at blank screens.

Or perhaps you don't realize that Tyler and Sally's jobs consist entirely of responding to our reports.

  • 7 votes
#7.18 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 8:58 PM EST
CL1

That isn't true that the Staff Moderators spend the majority of their time on the MSNBC boards?

  • 3 votes
#7.19 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:05 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

They do now...and those threads have the same tools. The Community moderators respond to Newsvine reports. Without those reports, they would be completely unaware of any and all violations.

We are the Police force. They are the judges.

  • 7 votes
#7.20 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:10 PM EST
CL1

personal attacks will be absolutely fine...

Again, I don't think we can get 50K presidents (users) to run this country (site) from the same platform (CoH) understanding of what constitutes a "personal" attack.

I tried my best -- that's all I can do.

Thank you for the discussion, Dennis.

  • 4 votes
#7.21 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:16 PM EST
VerbalBarb

VerbalBarb since there doesn't exist the button you suggested, your long version vis-a-vis the short one, I find sends the better message. May it be used by others?

Certainly.

  • 5 votes
#7.22 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:10 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Again, I don't think we can get 50K presidents (users) to run this country (site) from the same platform (CoH) understanding of what constitutes a "personal" attack.

Nevertheless, that's the very foundation of this site. Besides:

Newsvine, Still Not A Country

  • 8 votes
#7.23 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:36 PM EST
CL1

Yes, it's foundational, and I was pointing out why it will never work to have more Chiefs than Indians, as the cliche goes.

One of the most difficult things for tutors and teachers to keep in mind is to never tell students that something is 'easy'. Easy is relative. If someone's struggling with a concept, it's not easy for them, no matter how much you might know about it.

My Newsvine Year's Resolution is to never type 'It's not hard' about a site issue. Instead, I'll write articles I can refer back to and try to break things down at every opportunity.

Newsvine isn't the United States of America, especially when it comes to guaranteed rights. That seems obvious enough, but I understand where the disconnect springs from. It's an American website; it's pretty much all public; America guarantees the right to freedom of speech; therefore collapsing comments/suspending accounts/banning IPs/whatever is infringing on a user's rights. See testimony above from folks who think that's how it works...

1. "easy is relative" --- Yes.

2. Tyler has done an excellent job in his time, of "breaking things down;" yet, the same problems prevail, and always will. I gave my opinion on why -- contradictions -- but, Dennis, we will have to agree to disagree on that, apparently.

3. The reason why folks will always think 'that's how it works' is because they [the policymakers] have tried to give us the same authority, as a government representative or an appellate court judge. In real life, we are represented "indirectly"- and we don't get to judge a criminal as a whole society, it's done by a small panel of jurors... is it any wonder why this system is beyond fairness and functions to anger and pit us against each other?? Why those of us that get suspended or banned are so angry that we write articles about it and/or rereg? If the community buttons were removed, but a *new button* was installed to alert the Staff of what you suggest, "spammers" showing up, then the Staff should have 'less' to do than what they have now - sifting through a bunch of nonsensical, crap-filled user complaints (yes, I read through Viki's c/ps of what she was reading). **That would be my suggestion.

_______________________

I do care about this site; that's why you've read so much from me.

  • 4 votes
#7.24 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:13 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Whether you think it will work or not, CL, the fact remains that it has. For the first couple of years, this site was virtually problem free, and troll-free to the point where one would wander in every few weeks or so, get banned, and no one would notice.

With the buyout came a huge influx of new users, who didn't have time to adapt to the way things worked here, though we certainly did our best to help them in any way we could.

Though that led to more problems...the bottom line is that the system still works. This series of articles, now well over 3500 comments, is proof of that. Other than a couple of users, the conversations have been problem free.

Why? Because I moderate my column. I've stopped problems before they took hold, I've unfortunately had to delete a few comments, but other than that - we've had seven productive (and fun) conversations.

On these articles I did my job. I'm judge, jury, and when necessary, executioner, and that's exactly how this site was designed.

Have you noticed the lack of collapsed comments? The lack of deletions, apart from those two people? That's proof that not only I have done my job as moderator, but that everyone else has done their job as Viners.

And I thank all of you who have participated for doing so responsibly.

  • 5 votes
#7.25 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:25 AM EST
CL1

Dennis, I understand that it "did" work when the site was new, small and the users were of the same mindset. That makes a huge amount of sense to me why it worked 'back then'. Those conditions have changed dramatically. It would be like trying to make the USA function like it did with the original 13 colonies. *Yet, I see no harm in never giving up in pursuing our principles and convictions. That's a quality I tend to admire, and strive for myself.*

On these articles I did my job. I'm judge, jury, and when necessary, executioner, and that's exactly how this site was designed.

I understand, and agree.

Have you noticed the lack of collapsed comments? The lack of deletions, apart from those two people? That's proof that not only I have done my job as moderator, but that everyone else has done their job as Viners.

Yes, I noticed. I agree; everyone has been on 'good behavior' status. It's been nice.

And I thank all of you who have participated for doing so responsibly.

And, thank you for hosting the series, and for giving us opportunities to think about what 'was' and what 'should be' considered the correct interpretations of the rules. For many, joining Nv was probably like passing a driver's license exam, with only a minimum score required for passing. Going over the rules with scrutiny, has required us to read the "driving manual." :) Thank you.

  • 5 votes
#7.26 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:55 AM EST
Lee-479062

Dennis, there is another way to look at how trouble free the series has been. The number of different users has been small and they are generally long timers. The vast majority of users, including many of the most prolific seeders, have pretty much stayed away.

They don't appear to be interested in restoring the original vision of Newsvine. Unless this appeals to a much wider audience, and garners support from a substantial number of those who offend the most, you are not going to see the cultural shift you are advocating.

To change a culture, you are going to have to give them something that they think is worth fighting for. Preaching to the choir doesn't save many souls.

  • 7 votes
#7.27 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:25 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Unless this appeals to a much wider audience, and garners support from a substantial number of those who offend the most, you are not going to see the cultural shift you are advocating.

It would help if those who agree with the point of this series would clip the articles to their columns and any relevant groups. The more exposure, the better.

  • 4 votes
#7.28 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:06 AM EST
Lee-479062

I agree it will help, and I applaud your efforts. Having changed a culture previously, with stellar results, I am highly skeptical of the outcome of this effort.

  • 5 votes
#7.29 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:24 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

I don't see this so much as changing the culture. More a matter of reestablishing the original culture - changing it back. The changes themselves are quite minor, really. More like an update of the CoH and reporting tools made necessary by the cultural changes that came with the huge influx of new users.

  • 4 votes
#7.30 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:46 AM EST
Lee-479062

The culture of NV has indeed changed, and not for the better as evidenced by the need for this series of articles. I am afraid you are in for a rude awakening if you think a revamping of a few rules and tools will do the trick.

Once again, there has to be a reason that the vast majority of users wants to change. It cannot be dictated to them and still retain the large base that MSNBC requires. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen attempts at cultural shift numerous times.

  • 4 votes
#7.31 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:36 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Once again, there has to be a reason that the vast majority of users wants to change.

Judging by the near constant complaints about incorrectly collapsed articles, seeds and comments, and by the complains about the constant influx of spammers and trolls, I would say that the reasons are there.

  • 5 votes
#7.32 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:39 AM EST
Lee-479062

Yet it is a small core doing the complaining. Let's call them the choir.

  • 3 votes
#7.33 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:43 AM EST
Reply
Confer

Dennis, please share with us the step-by-step method that allows for the most effective way to report the abuses we have been discussing. The ! seems too vanilla and like the report bug may sit in a moderator's cue for who knows how long. If these are the extent of our options, then so be it.

  • 5 votes
Reply#8 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:35 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

The method available to us is the ! on each article/seed and comment. Clicking on that gives you a list of options to choose from.

The other possible ways to report behavior that violates the CoH/UA is through the Report Bug option, found up at the top of the page. There you will find an option to "Report Spam or Malicious User." That should be used judiciously, as it should be reserved for those users who are truly malicious, ie, trolls who leave nothing but incendiary comments.

The third option would be to email the Community moderators, but since they are so backed up, that too should only be used for the most egregious of situations.

Nevertheless, I feel that there is hope. I believe the CoH revision I proposed, along with the proposed reporting tools, would make Newsvine far more useable. I know that if we Viners all did our jobs, especially in not violating the CoH in our comments, and properly moderating our columns, Newsvine would be a better place overnight. I also believe that these measures would drastically cut the workloads of the Site moderators, freeing them up to actually moderate the site.

Lastly, I believe that supporting quality while marginalizing the 'divisive horse@!$%#', as VerbalBarb so aptly put it, would make a huge difference. If the divisive horse@!$%# didn't draw comments, it would no longer be seeded.

I truly believe that all of these steps need to be implemented, and I urge anyone who agrees to send links to the last article and this one to the staff as Site Suggestions, boycott the people who write/seed divisive garbage, and watchlist the good writers out there.

Go to the columns worth going to, and avoid the asshats like the plague. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

  • 7 votes
#8.1 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 7:49 PM EST
Confer

Thanks for your efforts with this and for the time you gave to it. As I stated on a previous one of your examinations of the Newsvine rules, I will do my part to make this site a more meaningful experience.

  • 7 votes
#8.2 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:26 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Thanks for your efforts with this and for the time you gave to it.

You're quite welcome.

As I stated on a previous one of your examinations of the Newsvine rules, I will do my part to make this site a more meaningful experience.

Speaking for myself, and all those who care about this site, thank you.

  • 8 votes
#8.3 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 10:38 PM EST
Reply
Judy Ostrom

I wish there was a vote down a comment button as we have a vote up one... I also hate the collapsed comments...I also think many moderators delete comments simply because they are on the opposite spectrum from theirs this I find frustrating because I like to read everybody's opinion as long as it is not a personal attack and is on subject comments should stand!

  • 4 votes
Reply#9 - Mon Jan 2, 2012 11:17 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I wish there was a vote down a comment button as we have a vote up one..

That idea was suggested in the early days, and pretty much universally rejected because it was too much like Digg, and had too much potential for abuse.

I also hate the collapsed comments...I also think many moderators delete comments simply because they are on the opposite spectrum from theirs this I find frustrating because I like to read everybody's opinion as long as it is not a personal attack and is on subject comments should stand!

Examples of people violating the CoH. reporting comments that are not in violation, deleting comments not in violation.

If the ambiguity in the CoH was cleared up, as I suggested in the last article, much of that would stop happening because people would better understand what is/is not a violation, and face penalties for not properly moderating their columns.

  • 6 votes
#9.1 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:29 AM EST
Spikegary

A 'no vote' to me is the same as a vote down. I agree that it would turn things into even more of a personality/beauty contest, as most would not bother to learn the correct usage.

  • 6 votes
#9.2 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 12:59 PM EST
magz

We should also have a feature where we can take a vote back, like Facebook's like/unlike button, only because the ! button is right next to the vote up button (doh!).

Also, it would be nice if we had a narc button, you know, find out who reported us, so we can spite them.

  • 6 votes
#9.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 3:47 PM EST
neenie1991

because the ! button is right next to the vote up button (doh!).

If I had a dime...

  • 8 votes
#9.4 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 4:43 PM EST
neenie1991

bubblegum

  • 6 votes
#9.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 4:43 PM EST
northern girl

If you had a dime, you'd buy bubblegum?

  • 7 votes
#9.6 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 4:49 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Also, it would be nice if we had a narc button, you know, find out who reported us, so we can spite them.

I think you mean "smite them."

magz, you're a troublemaker. Carry on.

  • 9 votes
#9.7 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:08 PM EST
VerbalBarb

only because the ! button is right next to the vote up button (doh!).

Damn, it ticks me off when I hit the wrong one.

I hate voting someone up I meant to report....I wonder if the mods can see the "up" vote and the "inflammatory" report one right after the other. lol

  • 6 votes
#9.8 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:37 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Anyone here remember when we didn't have a post comment button? We only had one button that said "Post Comment and Vote." If you posted a comment, you voted on the article/seed.

  • 4 votes
#9.9 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 11:43 PM EST
Spikegary

Before my time, but not a bad idea. In fact, just Post. If you posted you voted-why even bother to say both?

  • 4 votes
#9.10 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 7:32 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

We begged for the second button. There are articles where you want to comment but don't want to give it a vote...

  • 8 votes
#9.11 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 8:02 AM EST
Spikegary

True enough-and there's articles I want to vote on and vote on comments where I don't want to or don't have the time to comment on also.

  • 6 votes
#9.12 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 8:16 AM EST
Reply
mightyj

Therefore, I would like to see the addition of these two reporting tools:

  • Hate Site
  • Poor/Absent Moderation

I have a couple of concerns about these proposed revisions.

I would rather see Hate site replaced with "Hate Based Content." Rather than boycotting sources we should be boycotting content and if the content is Hate Based (I don't care where it comes from) it deserves to be collapsed .

It is a great premise and an excellent new tool as proposed but I feel that keeping it about the content might be more in the spirit of NV.

Poor / Absent moderation Worries me some. I work offshore and have hundreds of articles with comment threads. What if one of them gets ugly while I am out at sea. Some of the topics I write about are controversial in the sense that something in the news could bring things I have written to the attention of some very angry media folks with lots of followers (minions). If one of those articles went viral while I was offshore it would look a lot like poor or absent moderation.

I would rather see one of the guides given moderating powers for the thread in question then to have it collapsed by that button. Sort of a, "If you fail to moderate your thread someone will have to do it for you" option.

I am of the impression that you mean for these additions to be a tool to collapse an article with and have written my comment with that idea.

Ps- Thank you for this article Dennis. I am very impressed with the thought and care that you have put into this series.

  • 6 votes
Reply#10 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 2:57 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

I would rather see Hate site replaced with "Hate Based Content."

I'm fine with that, since it covers articles too, though I think there should be a list of hate sites that people know they cannot seed from.

Poor / Absent moderation Worries me some. I work offshore and have hundreds of articles with comment threads. What if one of them gets ugly while I am out at sea.

Oh, that's easy. Quit your job and learn to live on the $.04 that Newsvine pays every month ;-)

Really, though, an article usually has about a two day life-span. If it's really popular, it may last three or four days, tops. After that the discussion just fades away. It's best to write and seed when you know you'll be around for those couple of days.

I would rather see one of the guides given moderating powers for the thread in question then to have it collapsed by that button.

The guides definitely need more tools. They should, for example, be able to delete spam accounts, rather than reporting them and having to wait for someone else to do it. They should also be able to moderate certain columns, though there should be a mechanism to make sure that that viners don't simply rely on them the way they rely on Tyler and Sally. The last thing we need is more people shirking their responsibilities with the excuse that "the guides will take care of it."

Ps- Thank you for this article Dennis. I am very impressed with the thought and care that you have put into this series.

You're very welcome, and thank you for your continued participation.

  • 9 votes
#10.1 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:17 AM EST
Reply
Confer

Lee, if nothing else, keeping away from any of the "authors" most of us know about or any headlines that are on face value patently goofy, will leave that "choir" with no one to "sing" to.

Additionally, Dennis' thoughts regarding increased accountability from those who author, seed, and monitor makes realistic sense. Those who comment should be reporting more than they do presently.

Although simplistic, these are two actions that would in fact make a difference if those of us who care put them into use. You seem to also be uncomfortable with what The Vine isn't, why not do your part? Thanks.

  • 4 votes
Reply#11 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 5:43 PM EST
CL1

Something that was brought up before, that is very significant when a column-owner is supposed to be properly moderating their discussion section -- is that the 'friend list' gets in the way of decisions. I have yet to see a moderator (even me) be 'fair' because we don't want to 'PO' our friends. This is but another reason why column-owner moderation is highly biased, and why it doesn't work effectively.

  • 6 votes
#11.1 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:07 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Additionally, Dennis' thoughts regarding increased accountability from those who author, seed, and monitor makes realistic sense. Those who comment should be reporting more than they do presently.

Not to mention that it's the rule. CoH 4.

I have yet to see a moderator (even me) be 'fair' because we don't want to 'PO' our friends. This is but another reason why column-owner moderation is highly biased, and why it doesn't work effectively.

I'm one. I'll delete a blue comment in a heartbeat, if it deserves to be deleted. When it comes to moderating my column, I see everyone as my friend - and I expect no less than perfection from my friends. '-)

  • 6 votes
#11.2 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:11 PM EST
CL1

I admire that Dennis. :) It's a difficult decision sometimes, for me, anyway.

  • 4 votes
#11.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:22 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I tend to just ignore the color, as if I were colorblind. The way I see it, people know when they've violated the CoH, and if they're going to get mad at me for doing my job, they aren't much of a friend anyway. It's worked so far - I've never been defriended over deleting a comment.

  • 7 votes
#11.4 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:26 PM EST
Spikegary

I've had some off-tracking/de-railing from friends-all it has taken is one request to pull the comments back to the topic and it's fixed.

  • 5 votes
#11.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 6:53 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yeah, that's almost always enough. If there is a CoH violation, as in CoH 1 violation, though... oh well. Bye bye.

  • 6 votes
#11.6 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:01 PM EST
CL1

Sg.. off-topic seems a little easier to fix to me, in the same way as you say. The problem is 'everything' else. :) We agree with them, even though we know it's inflammatory. lol

  • 3 votes
#11.7 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Not always. I have friends on Newsvine I'll never, ever agree with. They're nice people, though, even if they are wrong about, well, everything.

That reminds me. Where's PatN?

  • 9 votes
#11.8 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:04 PM EST
Lee-479062

Confer, you are reading me completely wrong. I hope, and have said so several times, that Dennis' efforts pay off. I am highly skeptical that they will.

As for doing my part, I don't generally contribute to the problems. I don't abandon my seeds, I mostly deal in facts unless someone decides to attack or get snarky. In those cases, I tend to use those options available that don't violate the COH or UA. I don't deal in personal attacks asa a rule and I have never been suspended. I did get warned to knock it off, as did my opponent, early in my tenure, but absolutely nothing since. I do my part.

I do note, however, that your tenure is considerably shorter. Just as friendly advice, perhaps you should do a little more homework before judging fellow viners. They will appreciate it and you will be seen as someone to be respected.

  • 5 votes
#11.9 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:22 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I am highly skeptical that they will.

Well, damn, man, thanks for the vote of confidence ;-)

  • 6 votes
#11.10 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:27 PM EST
Lee-479062

As I said, Dennis, your efforts are appreciated and we desire the same end. It is not you that I lack confidence in. It is the congregation.

  • 8 votes
#11.11 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:31 PM EST
CL1

And, you know that I agree with Lee, Dennis. :)

Your efforts are appreciated on many levels, and I would guess you have enlightened some, and caused others to think.

But Lee's point is that change happens as a result of desire, not because one is 'told' to change. Punishment won't cure anything; they just come back.

Once again, there has to be a reason that the vast majority of users wants to change. It cannot be dictated to them and still retain the large base that MSNBC requires. I hope I am wrong, but I have seen attempts at cultural shift numerous times.

  • 4 votes
#11.12 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:37 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I just got an email from Mike Davidson. The reporting tool revision is being forwarded to those who are currently working on... a reporting tool revision.

  • 9 votes
#11.13 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:39 PM EST
CL1

Interesting. Thanks for letting us know!

  • 4 votes
#11.14 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:43 PM EST
Reply
Confer

CL1: The concept of "friends" on a venue such as this is simply part of the structure of maximizing votes (numbers of folks driving up "viewership") and the attending advertising revenue. I know this is obvious but the notion of violations of the COH having a link to someone you likely will never see, or for that matter really know, puts this in perspective.

"Friends" are encouraged to vote and support one-another and are the pathway to getting all the "branches" on ones vine. It is simply a means to an end. As Dennis indicated, if these people are put out by you exercising your responsibilities, so what.

  • 2 votes
Reply#12 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:19 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

There is a functional aspect to friends aside from that, though, and that's that they appear on the conversation tracker. Making friends with people whom you respect, like, hate, agree with or whatever could lead you to conversations that might be of interest to you.

  • 7 votes
#12.1 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:26 PM EST
CL1

Confer, thank you. I generally take your attitude, which is why I reference the list as my "reading list" -- I choose those that I think I might find of interest to read. However, as Dennis points out, a relationship of 'discussion' can occur, that turns into one of a respected nature -- that we don't want to lose because they might inadvertently get their feelings hurt if we impose penalties (I don't think I'm the only one susceptible to that:). I've read many say that if they get deleted or treated a certain way -- they don't go back, and rarely do we admit if we were actually at fault. ;0

  • 4 votes
#12.2 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:43 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Newsvine is not, and never has been a place for the thin-skinned.

If someone's feelings are easily hurt, I suggest they hang out in the Home & Garden section reading cookie recipes.

  • 9 votes
#12.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:51 PM EST
CL1

Hahaha..well, I'm probably thin-skinned, but you will not find me resorting to Home and Garden.:)

Seriously, some very 'not-so-thin-skinned' have said they would not go back if they get deleted or reprimanded if they don't agree. One was a very prolific and popular user that easily dished it out -- started with a " d " -- that was banned. My point is that no matter what type of personality we have, no one likes to be deleted, and will usually have an 'attitude' afterwards. Sure, there are exceptions.. hardcore polemists, maybe -- but they don't seem to be the average user here.

  • 3 votes
#12.4 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 7:58 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

When it comes to those people, as Confer said

if these people are put out by you exercising your responsibilities, so what.

  • 6 votes
#12.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:02 PM EST
CL1

I agree; that is how we 'should' look at it.

  • 3 votes
#12.6 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:06 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yep. I'm here to discuss and debate issues, not make folks feel good.

  • 6 votes
#12.7 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:09 PM EST
CL1

(oops, s/b "polemicist"...hate it when that happens:)

  • 3 votes
#12.8 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:12 PM EST
Shannoscubie

The concept of "friends" on a venue such as this is simply part of the structure of maximizing votes (numbers of folks driving up "viewership")

Oh, no. I use it as a way to find new things to read and discuss.

  • 10 votes
#12.9 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:04 AM EST
Pat N

...and then there's the fact that I was personally sad when I found out an ol' timer Newsvine friend, Bill Harrison had died.

I also know of at least one marriage that is a direct result of the two people meeting on the Vine.

  • 9 votes
#12.10 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:24 AM EST
Dubbya R

...ol' timer Newsvine friend ,Bill Harrison had died.

Hadn't heard. Thanks for mentioning Pat. I only had a few dealings with him, found him interesting. My condolences to his friends here.

  • 8 votes
#12.11 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:39 PM EST
mrsrachelm

I agree with Pat N. Most of the things I read and discuss comes from items that appear on my tracker. I bypass a lot too, of course, if whatever article or seed isn't my cup of tea. I never go based on leader boards or most voted up or anything like that. I've been on seeds that were insanely populated with comments and on those where my comment was one of only a few.

My frien's list is varied and includes all political parties, interests, religions and lack thereof so by the time I plow through all the things that pop up on my tracker, I'm ready to get off the vine and get on with RL, lol.

  • 5 votes
#12.12 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:34 PM EST
Reply
mstanley2265

A poke button is Not the same as a hi button. Hi does not require an answer.

  • 4 votes
Reply#13 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:42 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Neither does.

  • 5 votes
#13.1 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:44 PM EST
mstanley2265

according to my granddaughters if they poke me I have to poke them back because otherwise they Don't know if I'm alive. :)

hi, is like a wave to the neighbor when I'm going shopping..so instead of Hi, would a wave work for you?

  • 4 votes
#13.2 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:48 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

For me? No. I'm here for discussion, not to say hi to people. I just don't see a benefit to that.

  • 6 votes
#13.3 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 8:52 PM EST
CL1

"Hi" is for Facebook and Match.com. :)

  • 5 votes
#13.4 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:04 PM EST
mstanley2265

I'm here for discussion, both political, weighty tomes of some articles and lighter interesting finds geographical, universal, etc, interaction with others, sharing a joke, paintings, photographics, poetry, and music....Which is way more than Facebook and Match.com. It's why I only go to Facebook (grandkids, for updates) and never to Match

NewsVine is a much more well rounded adult societal forum than any I researched before coming here and thanks to Carloz is why I stayed.

  • 6 votes
#13.5 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:10 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Then why a 'hi' button?

Hi buttons are for social sites. Places like facebook, where the primary purpose is to socialize. Contrary to popular opinion, Newsvine is not a social site, or at least, was never intended to be. It's a synthesis of professional and citizen journalism.

A participatory news site.

  • 6 votes
#13.6 - Tue Jan 3, 2012 9:19 PM EST
Reply
TR-421173

Another brilliant article. Bravo sir.

  • 6 votes
Reply#14 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 1:11 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Thank you.

  • 6 votes
#14.1 - Wed Jan 4, 2012 1:22 PM EST
Reply
mstanley2265

I got a new one this morning, commenting on the article and then throwing on the end an advert...Well, hey the comment started out ok, but geez why waste a good comment for an advert

sidenote: çok kötü ÅŸimdi bu-cekti var olmak ilginç makaleler kama sutra yazmayın, beni günaha ile onun ÅŸiiri içine lider magz

  • 5 votes
#15 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 7:08 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I've seen a few of those today. Spam masquerading as legitimate comments.

  • 5 votes
#15.1 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 7:11 PM EST
mstanley2265

Found your 'resurrection', that was cool..LOL

  • 5 votes
#15.2 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 8:29 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Pretty funny. I got suspended for a week that lasted nine minutes, and didn't even know it.

  • 5 votes
#15.3 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 8:33 PM EST
mstanley2265

ROFLOL...NewsVine is Always interesting, sooner or later.... I was gonna wait and see usually do on suspensions and banning, before I boot from the Honor Vine...:)

  • 4 votes
#15.4 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 8:43 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

lol. Be kinda bad to write a series on the CoH and then get suspended for a week, you know?

  • 6 votes
#15.5 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 8:57 PM EST
mstanley2265

Considering how longggg the articles are it's a wonder you didn't get cross eyed a couple of times. LOL Always a good excuse for not comprehending what you're typing...

  • 4 votes
#15.6 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:05 PM EST
bore-head007

I'm glad that got straightened out.

  • 4 votes
#15.7 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:11 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yeah, me too.

  • 4 votes
#15.8 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:15 PM EST
Pat N

The irony I see here? I once got suspended for telling someone they had a lack of reading comprehension.

  • 5 votes
#15.9 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:34 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

heh.

  • 5 votes
#15.10 - Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:45 PM EST
northern girl

Here's what I dont understand: The people following that article should have known you were talking to Santorum, so who- and how many- reported your comment. I know T&S dont have time to read every comment posted to the vine. They rely on reports. So, was someone following you around waiting for an "ooops" as Sally put it, or did they jump right to the comment section without reading the article?

I do know one particular viner who keeps making comments about a certain few who are going to basically "get their dues" and that he/she/it is reporting all comments they view as a CoH violation. Problem is, this viners interpretation of the CoH isnt very good.

  • 9 votes
#15.11 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 6:06 AM EST
Pat N

I do know one particular viner who keeps making comments about a certain few who are going to basically "get their dues" and that he/she/it is reporting all comments they view as a CoH violation.

That person may eventually see their reporting right suspended if they continue to abuse the feature.

  • 8 votes
#15.12 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:00 AM EST
northern girl

Given enough rope, some people will find a way to hang themselves. We'll see who "gets their due".

  • 9 votes
#15.13 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:04 AM EST
Spikegary

Is there a link to this mess?

  • 6 votes
#15.14 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:31 AM EST
Pat N

Given enough rope, some people will find a way to hang themselves. We'll see who "gets their due".

That person has already been given warning about their moderation techniques. So the leash has been shortened a hair already.

Is there a link to this mess?

Yes. A few of them. And "No"....I'm not going to put them here. =)

  • 7 votes
#15.15 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 8:35 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

So, was someone following you around waiting for an "ooops" as Sally put it, or did they jump right to the comment section without reading the article?

No way to know, but my guess is the former. Of course, that's just a guess...

Gary, here.

  • 6 votes
#15.16 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 9:10 AM EST
northern girl

SG,

If you want to sort through some of my comments in the last couple weeks, feel free, but Id rather not link anything. Im sure you'll figure it out.

Dennis,

Im guessing the former also.

  • 5 votes
#15.17 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 10:08 AM EST
Shannoscubie

telling someone they had a lack of reading comprehension.

Why even say that, though? What's wrong with "Perhaps we're mis-communicating here. Let me try explaining it another way..." And there's also the possibility that yes, they DO understand, they simply still disagree.

  • 6 votes
#15.18 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:12 AM EST
Pat N

Why even say that, though?

In this case, it was because they were being deliberately obtuse, looking for a pissin' match and twisting my words which were extremely clear. I felt that mentioning a potential lack of reading comprehension was far nicer than telling them they are being deliberately obtuse. =)

  • 8 votes
#15.19 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:27 AM EST
TR-421173

...

  • 3 votes
#15.20 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:27 PM EST
Shannoscubie

I felt that mentioning a potential lack of reading comprehension was far nicer than telling them they are being deliberately obtuse. =)

LOL! Funny, I find it nicer to be called stubborn than to be called stupid.

  • 5 votes
#15.21 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:27 PM EST
neenie1991

I felt that mentioning a potential lack of reading comprehension was far nicer than telling them they are being deliberately obtuse. =)

Oh man. I've done both. :( Mea culpa.

  • 3 votes
#15.22 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:24 PM EST
VerbalBarb

In this case, it was because they were being deliberately obtuse, looking for a pissin' match and twisting my words which were extremely clear.

I've run into two people over the last couple of days that seemed to be totally misconstruing my comments, and I figured they were either deliberately doing so or were simply incapable of understanding what I was saying.

I told told the first guy I was leaving his article, as his responses to me seemed disconnected to a point it was perturbing, and I told the second guy that I was disengaging from discussion with him, as I did not want to have to explain my comments to him 3 or 4 times because he kept reading things into them that weren't there.

I don't want to bang my head against a wall trying to deal with people who can't, or deliberately won't, understand what I'm saying.

  • 9 votes
#15.23 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:25 PM EST
Shannoscubie

I don't want to bang my head against a wall trying to deal with people who can't, or deliberately won't, understand what I'm saying.

I've been thinking about this...It might be a combination of both, if what's happening is that what you're saying/explaining is causing some sort of cognitive dissonance in the person you're conversing with. Their inability to understand may be because, in order to quash that intellectual brain-squirming feeling they might be having, they have to a) deny that feeling and b) pretty much deny everything you're saying even if that's in the form of deliberately misunderstanding it - even unconsciously - to keep that feeling from coming back.

  • 8 votes
#15.24 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 2:42 PM EST
Pat N

I've run into two people over the last couple of days that seemed to be totally misconstruing my comments, and I figured they were either deliberately doing so or were simply incapable of understanding what I was saying.

So what you're really saying is that you have an inate inability to communicate effectively.

(is that a pretty good example of what you've been running into?)

  • 4 votes
#15.25 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:30 PM EST
There They Go Again

I've run into two people over the last couple of days that seemed to be totally misconstruing my comments, and I figured they were either deliberately doing so or were simply incapable of understanding what I was saying.

They're not really dumb Barb. That's a deliberate debating tactic for those who have had all their arguments refuted. They just hope that it will get you pissed off enough so that you'll say something you shouldn't. Then they run to the mods and get you suspended. Last time somebody tried it with me, I just told him I'd been around too long to fall for the phoney dumb act and that perhaps he should practice it on people in the Greenhouse until he got better at it.

  • 5 votes
#15.26 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:04 PM EST
VerbalBarb

So what you're really saying is that you have an inate inability to communicate effectively.

(is that a pretty good example of what you've been running into?)

LOL

That's quite close on one of them.

The other took a totally generic comment I made and insisted I was referring to him somehow and wouldn't let it go. It was very odd.

  • 6 votes
#15.27 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:19 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

The other took a totally generic comment I made and insisted I was referring to him somehow and wouldn't let it go. It was very odd.

Hey! Stop talking about me!

  • 4 votes
#15.28 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:21 PM EST
VerbalBarb

Hey! Stop talking about me!

Stop that, Dennis! =0P

  • 4 votes
#15.29 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:22 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

lol. Couldn't help myself.

  • 4 votes
#15.30 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:36 PM EST
Reply
Spikegary

Ah, I read through. That looks like she was blasting through quickly and saw it and made a snap decision. Glad the community banded together to make sure it was corrected.

  • 7 votes
Reply#16 - Fri Jan 6, 2012 10:38 AM EST
MJL-3

Dennis

I have a question, when a article gets collapsed , how does that happen, I learned not too long ago that you can use the ! at the top of the page, but non of those are really appropriate. I don't get it.

1. Duplicate story: I understand

2.Miscategorized/off topic: ??

3. Broken or Pay Link: ??

4. Inaccurate: ??

5. Misconduct/Unlawful :??

6. Ignore the Author: I understand

  • 5 votes
Reply#17 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 5:42 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I have a question, when a article gets collapsed , how does that happen,

No one knows the actual number, but if an article or seed receives x number of negative reports, it collapses. The author can then appeal to the staff, who will review it, and decide whether or not to restore it. If it's not in violation of the CoH or UA, they will. If it is in violation, they'll either choose not to, or tell the author to correct the violations before restoring it.

but non of those are really appropriate.

Hence the purpose of this article - to propose more efficient reporting tools. As I said above, the tools have never been revised, other than the addition of the ignore option, when that feature became available. The options we have were sufficient in the early days, when Newsvine was far smaller, everyone understood the rules, and they were hardly ever broken, but now they really need to be updated.

As for the current options, those that you listed, explanations for all of them, as well as suggested revisions, are in the article above.

  • 6 votes
#17.1 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:05 PM EST
MJL-3

Got it.

  • 4 votes
#17.2 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:18 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Cool.

  • 4 votes
#17.3 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:21 PM EST
Reply
Jesse-Az

Finally, because it is now enforced, grenade trolling should be added to the reporting tools. Grenade trolling would be defined as denigrating a group so as to attack any members of that group participating in the thread.

This has never been enforced, especially towards anti-GOP remarks.  I can't count the number of threads with TeaTards, Rethuglicans, etc that not only have non collapsed comments, but repeated insults over and over.  Is this going to actually be enforced equally for once?

Also, what's the definition of insulting a group.  If someone goes "The GOP are a bunch of terrorists" is that trolling or is it a political stance?  Most would take more slight at being called a terrorist than someone calling a pithy name out.  Does it have to be a negative slight, or can it be accurate even if negative?  Such as "Liberals wish to see the institutionalization of Americans through the use of welfare"?  If that is a true belief would that be considered grenade trolling?

  • 3 votes
Reply#18 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:54 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

This has never been enforced,

I see it enforced quite often, no matter what group might be the target.

Is this going to actually be enforced equally for once?

I'd love that, but as I tried to get across in the series on the CoH, nothing can be enforced equally without being reported equally. The moderators aren't clairvoyant, and they can't possibly read every comment. Without our reports, they don't know the violations exist.

Also, what's the definition of insulting a group.

No such definition yet exists in the CoH, which is why I said perhaps it should.

In my opinion, though, this:

The GOP are a bunch of terrorists

Would be an example of grenade trolling, while this:

Liberals wish to see the institutionalization of Americans through the use of welfare"

Would not.

The reason I feel that way is that the first one is an attack on the people who comprise that group, while the second one is an opinion about the political policies or beliefs of that group. Whether it's true or not (and it's not) is of no consequence.

  • 6 votes
#18.1 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:30 PM EST
Reply
mstanley2265

I seriously doubt that Any good scallops make their way to Western KY..But I'm gonna be, cross fingers, with any luck in NY this fall at Our Neale's place and then Syracuse at another friends. So, I'll find out Then

  • 3 votes
#19 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:00 PM EST
bore-head007

Don't be afraid of frozen!

Just make sure they are domestic sea scallops, not bat scallops.

  • 3 votes
#19.1 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:06 PM EST
Lee-479062

Bore-head, I haven't seen any fake scallops around in a long time (punched shark, etc). Has this problem been solved?

  • 3 votes
#19.2 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:09 PM EST
bore-head007

not bat bay scallops.

  • 4 votes
#19.3 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:10 PM EST
bore-head007

I haven't seen any fake scallops around in a long time (punched shark, etc). Has this problem been solved?

You know, Lee, I've never seen one?

They must send those to Texas!

  • 3 votes
#19.4 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:13 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Where can I get some of those bat scallops?

  • 3 votes
#19.5 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:32 PM EST
Lee-479062

No, but they were served in restaurants sometimes. Particularly in the buffet style joints like around Norfolk. It's been a long time since I saw any, though.

  • 4 votes
#19.6 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:41 PM EST
bore-head007

Where can I get some of those bat scallops?

Next to the bat loins!

  • 6 votes
#19.7 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:56 PM EST
Pat N

Where can I get some of those bat scallops?

It's good to see you're expanding your palate beyond household pets.

  • 6 votes
#19.8 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:24 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

No one can eat kitten all the time....

  • 7 votes
#19.9 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:42 PM EST
Pat N

But you have such a wide variety! Tom cat, Siamese, Persian, barn-cat, those ugly hairless things. You don't even need to de-fur them!

  • 5 votes
#19.10 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:54 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

You forgot Angora. Until recently, I lived in Ankara - formerly Angora. Those damn things were everywhere.

  • 5 votes
#19.11 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:56 PM EST
Pat N

They make nice sweaters. ☺

  • 4 votes
#19.12 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:58 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

The sweaters aren't made by the cats. They're made by the goats.

  • 6 votes
#19.13 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:05 PM EST
Lee-479062

Do these highly talented goats have a union? What is the going rate per hour for goat labor?

  • 7 votes
#19.14 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:08 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Not sure, but I know they make less than the Angora rabbits.

  • 5 votes
#19.15 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:11 PM EST
Pat N

The sweaters aren't made by the cats. They're made by the goats.

Yes dear. As a female who likes nice stuff...I know. I was trying to be facetious and obviously I failed miserably.

  • 6 votes
#19.16 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:14 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Nah, you didn't fail. I just wanted an excuse to link to the goats. They're really cool, um, goats. I think they exist just to piss off PETA.

  • 8 votes
#19.17 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:16 PM EST
Pat N

I also know that cows shrink and get ruined in the rain, too....since they're made out of suede and leather.

See how smart I am?

  • 6 votes
#19.18 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:26 PM EST
MJL-3

Pat N,

If you sneak up on a cow you can tip them over, Cow Tipping, that 's a favorite past time in Iowa :)

  • 6 votes
#19.19 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:29 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

See how smart I am?

Yep. A lot of people don't know that. About the cows, I mean.

If you sneak up on a cow you can tip them over, Cow Tipping, that 's a favorite past time in Iowa :)

Just how drunk/bored do you have to be?

  • 7 votes
#19.20 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:37 PM EST
MJL-3

Just how drunk/bored do you have to be?

Very, cows can be nasty

  • 7 votes
#19.21 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:39 PM EST
bore-head007

Tom cat, Siamese, Persian, barn-cat

Ally cat. You forgot ally cat!

  • 6 votes
#19.22 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:45 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I'd be nasty too if a bunch of drunk people snuck up on me and tipped me over.

  • 6 votes
#19.23 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:45 PM EST
Pat N

Ally cat. You forgot ally cat!

An alley cat is just a "city-fied" barn cat.

  • 6 votes
#19.24 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:51 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

No alley cats in Turkey. Probably because there are no alleys in Turkey.

  • 7 votes
#19.25 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:52 PM EST
Pat N

I'd be nasty too if a bunch of drunk people snuck up on me and tipped me over.

According to many, including truthorfiction.com, cow tipping is a myth. Sort of an urban (rural?) legend...

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/cowtipping.htm

Here's one that actually happened though....

(DISCLAIMER: I was NOT personally involved in this)

A group fo kids wound up in our county hospital a few years back, covered in 2nd & 3rd degree burns. How did they get them? Lighting cow farts. I don't have a clue how you can tell when a cow is going to fart...but these kids did it. I have a mental picture of these kids, following a cow around, patiently waiting for signs of sphincter pucker, indicating a forthcoming fart...lighter at the ready.

If they would have died, I would have nominated them for a Darwin Award.

  • 5 votes
#19.26 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:59 PM EST
Shannoscubie

I think they exist just to piss off PETA.

I like whoever does that.

  • 6 votes
#19.27 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:02 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

The Darwin Awards need an Honorable Mention category.

(DISCLAIMER: I was NOT personally involved in this)

lol. Glad to hear it.

  • 5 votes
#19.28 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:03 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I like whoever does that.

Me too. Angora goats present a real dilemma for PETA. They tell people not to wear fur, but that's fur, and you have to cut it off or it just keeps growing. Let it go for a year, the damn goat turns into Cousin It.

So if you buy an Angora sweater you just did a goat a favor, and nobody died.

  • 7 votes
#19.29 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:07 PM EST
There They Go Again

The important word was "personally" Dennis. Ask Pat who drove the getaway car.

  • 7 votes
#19.30 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:14 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Sounds more like they needed a getaway ambulance.

  • 8 votes
#19.31 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:24 PM EST
MJL-3

Yes,

Cow tipping IS a myth, can't be done

Oh your I guess I should have put a /sarc after it , but I couldn't help myself

  • 5 votes
#19.32 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:34 PM EST
Pat N

Ask Pat who drove the getaway car.

(bats eyelashes innocently...)

According to the newspaper report, one of the "youths" called 911, announcing his friends had been *fried by a cow fart*. So I'm thinking it really was a getaway ambulance.

  • 6 votes
#19.33 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:37 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I would have loved to see the look on the 911 operator's face.

  • 7 votes
#19.34 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:41 PM EST
There They Go Again

I would have loved to see the look on the 911 operator's face

I'd like to have seen the expression on the face of the kid when they tried to explain it to the insurance adjustor. God, I would love to be able to go through those files. Better stories than anything you could possibly make up.

  • 6 votes
#19.35 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:14 AM EST
neenie1991

The Darwin Awards need an Honorable Mention category.

Oh, they've got one. The 2012 Awards are out as well. I'd love to be on that panel of judges. You would be laughing or crying all day. (In the most sympathetic and thoughtful way of course.)

  • 5 votes
#19.36 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:41 AM EST
MsAubrey

PETA = People Eat Tasty Animals. Right?

*snickers*

You guys have me laughing so hard that my eyes are tearing up!!!

  • 3 votes
#19.37 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:55 PM EST
Reply
bore-head007
  • 4 votes
Reply#20 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:12 PM EST
magz

I still have to come back to the idea of people coming together to exchange opinion and argue their salient points. Much has been made of smart, which is not necessarily the alphabet after your given and last name, there's something to be said for being smart in the humane way, consideration, respect, empathy and the sort are forms of intelligence, much denigrated as intuition or personality profile.

What elevates either or both is interaction within the community. The CoH, in my view, is not some sort of concept floating in the air, but an agreement among users to not simply be at their best behavior, but to hold each other to the same standards. That's community.

  • 7 votes
Reply#21 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:41 PM EST
Lee-479062

The CoH, in my view, is not some sort of concept floating in the air, but an agreement among users to not simply be at their best behavior, but to hold each other to the same standards. That's community.

Well said.

  • 4 votes
#21.1 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:46 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

This bears repeating:

The CoH, in my view, is not some sort of concept floating in the air, but an agreement among users to not simply be at their best behavior, but to hold each other to the same standards. That's community.

Perfectly stated, magz. And that's why it's called the Code of Honor.

  • 5 votes
#21.2 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 8:49 PM EST
Shannoscubie

magz is my hero.

Except for that one thing.

  • 6 votes
#21.3 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:04 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Well yeah, there is that one thing.

Wait, no. Two things. Those two things.

  • 6 votes
#21.4 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:09 PM EST
Pat N

magz is my hero.

Now that's some low standards. (running and ducking the flying shoe coming from magz)

  • 7 votes
#21.5 - Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:39 PM EST
Reply
magz

What one thing? Ketchup? The gay cross dresser thing because I bought the girlfriend something expensive I could have spent on chewing tobacco and bad whiskey? My general dislike for Chicago pizza? My assertion that shanoscubie is shorthand for Cuban Communist? That I wish Patricia had been my prom date?

Wha?

  • 8 votes
#22 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:06 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

No, no. Other than the pizza thing, those are all fine. I'm talking about the one we don't talk about.

  • 6 votes
#22.1 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:19 AM EST
lauhal

Obsessive manscaping.

  • 10 votes
#22.2 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:25 AM EST
Shannoscubie

My assertion that shanoscubie is shorthand for Cuban Communist?

You're not saying it right. It's based on S3

  • 6 votes
#22.3 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:34 AM EST
magz

Obsessive manscaping

For the last time, it's not that. Just good hygiene.

You're not saying it right. It's based on S3

Wha?

Other than the pizza thing, those are all fine

there is nothing more important than pizza McCann, and you know it.

  • 7 votes
#22.4 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:48 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

there is nothing more important than pizza McCann, and you know it.

True, but I can't figure out for the life of me how you would know it. I mean, it's not like you're from Chicago, like lauhal and me.

  • 5 votes
#22.5 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 2:15 AM EST
Dubbya R

True or False:

Fruit and seacreatures are permitted toppings for pizzas.

  • 4 votes
#22.6 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 1:07 PM EST
lauhal

False! No fish. No fruit.

  • 8 votes
#22.7 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 1:17 PM EST
bore-head007

Fish and spaghetti are a natural. Why not on pizza?

Fruit is good on a breakfast pizza, although that could be classified as a pastry shaped like a pizza.

Blueberry is real good.

  • 2 votes
#22.8 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 1:30 PM EST
Pat N

Fruit and seacreatures are permitted toppings for pizzas.

True. Tomatoes are fruits. And I'm not eating pizza without tomato sauce.

  • 4 votes
#22.9 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 2:11 PM EST
Lee-479062

Fish and spaghetti are a natural. Why not on pizza?

Fruit is good on a breakfast pizza, although that could be classified as a pastry shaped like a pizza.

Blueberry is real good.

Braaaack!!! Sorry, that is just as incorrect as bananas on a boat. Thank you for playing. Vanna, show him our lovely parting gift.

  • 6 votes
#22.10 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 2:12 PM EST
bore-head007

that is just as incorrect

Which part?

Some or all?

  • 4 votes
#22.11 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 2:24 PM EST
Lee-479062

I see only two possible exceptions. Smoked oysters and anchovies.

  • 2 votes
#22.12 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 2:43 PM EST
MJL-3

They put pinapples on pizzas, isn't that a fruit?

  • 3 votes
#22.13 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:17 PM EST
bore-head007

A nice of piece Cod, (cooked like Chicken Parmesan), with sauce and pasta? Heaven.

Smoked oysters and anchovies

Think outside the box, Lee.

Some nice fresh Blue fin tuna pieces instead of pepperoni, or some calamari, cod tounges or cheeks. Smoked fish like herring, or sturgeon.

  • 4 votes
#22.14 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:24 PM EST
mstanley2265

bore-head! there are Very Good ways to cook very nice fresh fish, but adding them to Pizza. It is a Stretchhhhhhh on finer gourmet cookery. Maybe after a bottle of wine, it wouldn't matter.

  • 2 votes
#22.15 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:40 PM EST
Pat N

The way I see it, there are two ways to screw up pizza. The "high-falutin', elitist" and the NASCAR white trash" way.

1) The high falutin' way: The cheese that goes on pizza should come from a cow. Not a goat. Also, there are roughly 10 toppings that are appropriate for pizza. Stick to those 10. I have never taken a bite of pizza and said: "This is pretty good. But it's missing something. I know! Salmon!"

2) The NASCAR white trash way: There are two types of crusts that work. Thin crust or really thick deep dish. Quit with the in-between crust that has the flavor, thickness and consistency of carpet padding. Also, cheese belongs ON the pizza. Not IN the pizza. Quit with the stuffed crust. If you want a cheese stuffed tube...order the cheese sticks.

Lastly to the vegetarians. You ruin Super Bowl parties with your request for a "Veggie Lovers". If you want only vegetables...order a salad or pick the sausage off of the sausage and mushroom pizza.

  • 6 votes
#22.16 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:44 PM EST
bore-head007

But it's missing something. I know! Salmon!"

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

  • 5 votes
#22.17 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:53 PM EST
magz

Who are you people and why are all youse getting in between me and the Chicago pizza mafia bout pizza?

Shut up! Ahora baby!

False! No fish. No fruit.

You know I'm in love with u, but that's just stabbing me through the heart! What's wrong with olives? Anchovies (I brush before kissing)?

My heart be broken...

  • 6 votes
#22.18 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 3:59 PM EST
Pat N

Anchovies

Fuzzy fish don't deserve to exist, much less be nestled in a gooey bed of premium mozzarella on my pizza.

Olives? Now you're a man after my own heart. I could easily be bribed with a thin crust, sausage, mushroom and black olive.

  • 7 votes
#22.19 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 4:06 PM EST
Lee-479062

Bore-head, I do think outside the box. That's why I said smoked oysters.

All that other stuff is fine in its place. I love yellow fin grilled, I want no part of a cod, sturgeon is OK, calamari requires a place of its own so I can squeeze a little lemon on it, not a herring fan.

Magz, Chicago pizza is OK, but pizza ain't supposed to be square. New York pizza doesn't stack up to Chicago, or even get close, but the very best pizza I ever had was at a place called Deorio's in Columbus, Georgia. Not sure how it is now, but 40 years ago it always had the freshest ingredients, the very best crust and a sauce that was unbelievably good. I used to order a large pepperoni and mushroom (16") and one or two 6" pizzas for variety. It was family run and affordable. They tell me the other dishes were wonderful, too, but I never could resist the pizza.

I once drove 650 miles round trip to get my wife 2 medium smoked oyster pizzas from there.

  • 3 votes
#22.20 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 5:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

No fish in the same building as a pizza. No fruit (ok, tomato) on a pizza. No such thing as a freaking breakfast pizza, unless you're talking about the cold pizza and warm beer from the night before.

Chicago pizza is OK, but pizza ain't supposed to be square.

Chicago pizza isn't square. You must have gone to one of those places that advertize 'Chicago style' pizza that isn't.

  • 6 votes
#22.21 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 5:40 PM EST
Lee-479062

Went to a lot of places. Not all was square, but too much was.

Onion is a vegetable.

  • 4 votes
#22.22 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 5:48 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

OK, yeah, onion is acceptable. Actually, though, I think it's a tuber.

  • 5 votes
#22.23 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 5:52 PM EST
mstanley2265

Y'll eat that Pizza, I'm having KFC, extra crispy..

  • 4 votes
#22.24 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:07 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Oh, Kentucky Fried Rat.

  • 3 votes
#22.25 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:16 PM EST
mstanley2265

I am eating here as I read, not Nice..I needed the carbs to keep up with y'll specially that tempting magz and his doubles plus teasing poetry and steak sauce...what is the World coming too

here's a Bump for ya

  • 3 votes
#22.26 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:19 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Ah! The cute!! Make it go away!!!!

  • 5 votes
#22.27 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:24 PM EST
mstanley2265

Serves you Right! trying to Intimate my dindin..it is 6:30 here ya know

  • 4 votes
#22.28 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:27 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

OK, ok, I'm sorry. No more rat at dinnertime. Just don't do that again. My eyes are still burning.

  • 4 votes
#22.29 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:37 PM EST
mstanley2265

Hammered ya did I? Deserved... and I'll think of Something for magz's little shenanigan's.

  • 4 votes
#22.30 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:52 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Please, no more. The cute must stop.

  • 5 votes
#22.31 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:55 PM EST
mstanley2265

Seriously, too late, that's no 4 in the series. As long as he has photo's I'm gonna do a poem for it. LOL OMG I Love his mountain photos, I love rocks, the feel of them, texture, colors, water running over them. The way the earth has shaped them, moved them, rearranged them. sighhhhh

  • 3 votes
#22.32 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:00 PM EST
There They Go Again

Fruit is good on a breakfast pizza, although that could be classified as a pastry shaped like a pizza.

BH,

That's not a pizza. It's a round Danish Pastry.

Pepperoni, Mushroom, Onion, Italian Sausage, Ham, Bacon and Green Olives (double layer of each). Not too much sauce and a big load of cheese. Extra Oregano and Garlic (I know there's some in the sauce but I like more). Medium to thick crust (if I wanted thin crust, I'd put Ketchup and cheese on a cracker). Save the Anchovies; with all the rest of that stuff, the last thing my blood pressure needs is more salt. Also keep the Pineapple for your next luau.

Any place that can produce that makes it worth the three hour drive to Chicago (or at least a stop on my wife's next checkup visit to the hospital down there).

  • 4 votes
#22.33 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:04 PM EST
magz

This sub-thread just proves that half the people on this site are crazy.

  • 7 votes
#22.34 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:55 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

No, it proves that other than TTYA, lauhal and me, people on this site have no clue what pizza is. Oh, and Viki, when she's around.

Man, I'd kill for some Italian sausage right now. Real Chicago Italian sausage, that is, not that crap you get in supermarkets everywhere.

  • 5 votes
#22.35 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:57 PM EST
magz

Good mozzarella, what do you have on your flag? A slice?

  • 4 votes
#22.36 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:59 PM EST
mstanley2265

I do too know what Pizza is....St Louis Style Pizza, Real NY Italians made it. :)

  • 4 votes
#22.37 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:01 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Good mozzarella, what do you have on your flag? A slice?

What flag? And only New Yorkers buy pizza by the slice. If I want pizza, I get a freaking pizza.

I do too know what Pizza is....St Louis Style Pizza, Real NY Italians made it. :)

Oh, that's just so wrong. St Louis style made by New Yorkers? So...horrible stuff made by people who don't know what they're doing?

Jesus. If you're in St Louis, do yourself a favor. Drive to Chicago. It's not that far. Eat pizza for the first time in your life.

  • 4 votes
#22.38 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:07 PM EST
mstanley2265

I used to live there, and I have ate pizza in Chicago, and the NY Italians... pizza was better.....LOL

  • 3 votes
#22.39 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:14 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

I should delete that just on principle.

  • 3 votes
#22.40 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:17 PM EST
mstanley2265

And their Lasagna was Even better! Not counting the Chicken Cacciatore, a Ten Every Time..... Erano i migliori cuochi, il cibo era più eccellente e mi ha amato....per il mio Maria....I miss them...:(

!

  • 3 votes
#22.41 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:41 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Oh, I'm sure the Italian food made by the Italians was fantastic. I know it is in Chicago.

But we were talking about pizza, which, contrary to popular opinion, is not Italian.

  • 3 votes
#22.42 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:47 PM EST
mstanley2265

well, they made it and it was Great!!! lol you sure on a food kick tonight, hungry or something?

  • 2 votes
#22.43 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:56 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Tonight? This food thing has been going on for weeks! Started with Neale Osborn's puppy fried rice recipe, which was quite good, I might add.

  • 3 votes
#22.44 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:58 PM EST
mstanley2265

Oh, yeah now I remember and then when that sinus yuck started, it made me nauseous so I didna read as much of it... That reminds me, one of your Friends has kinda disappeared from one of the groups I co-admin, Top Dog Girl or something on that order, you know anything about where she mighta gone? Cutie too.

  • 2 votes
#22.45 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:04 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Don't recognize the name.

  • 3 votes
#22.46 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:10 AM EST
mstanley2265

The only reason I mentioned was she only had two listed and you're one. :)

  • 3 votes
#22.47 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:13 AM EST
There They Go Again

Man, I'd kill for some Italian sausage right now. Real Chicago Italian sausage, that is, not that crap you get in supermarkets everywhere.

Dennis,

Last I heard, Turkey is a Muslim country. They may have some rules about Pork. On the other hand, you're a lot closer to Italy than we are. Take a vacation and scarf it up.

My mother-in-law's family came from the border between Austria and Italy. Her Lasagne is the greatest I ever had, since she learned from her grandmother how to make it. She's 95 now and can't make it herself. She taught my wife but Barb's just isn't as good. The old recipes require lots of practice before they work well.

  • 4 votes
#22.48 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:20 AM EST
mstanley2265

he said that pizza wasn't Italian...lol

  • 3 votes
#22.49 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:27 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

The Turks are Muslim, but it seems they missed a few memos.

It's hard to find pork here, but that's only because the shop owners are reticent to stock it because they fear driving away the customers who are religious. But hell, I'm five minutes from Greece. I can get all the pork I want.

Muslims don't eat shellfish or drink alcohol either, but the Turks missed those memos.

Thing is, you can't get Italian sausage in Italy. I'm serious. If you ask for Italian sausage they look at you like you're from Mars, and then say "This is Italy. It's all Italian." What Americans call Italian sausage was invented in the stockyards of Chicago.

It's cool, though, I can make my own.

  • 4 votes
#22.50 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:28 AM EST
mstanley2265

y'll have to continue with the food talk, I'm yawning..nite

  • 3 votes
#22.51 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:31 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

he said that pizza wasn't Italian...lol

It isn't. Pizza as we know it is American. The concept originated in China and was brought west by Marco Polo. By the time it got to the Mediterranean, it had changed a lot. Italian pizza is the same as Turkish Pide. You wouldn't recognize it. It's football shaped, doesn't have tomato sauce, and they put all sorts of weird stuff on it. Like fried eggs. Looks like this.

What Americans call pizza was invented in Chicago just after WW1.

  • 3 votes
#22.52 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:33 AM EST
Lee-479062

The common belief is that Italians invented the pizza, however the origins go back to the ancient times. Even though we have yet to uncover archeological evidence of a Dominos Pizza before the last century, it is known the Babylonians, Israelites, Egyptians and other ancient Middle Eastern cultures were eating flat, un-leaven bread that had been cooked in mud ovens. The bread was much like a pita, which is still common in Greece and the Middle East today. Further it is known that ancient Mediterranean people such as the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians were eating the bread, topped seasoned with olive oil and native spices.

The lower class of the Naples, Italy is believed to have created pizza in a more familiar fashion. In the late 1800s a Italian baker named Raffaele Esposito, was believed to have created a dish for visiting royalty. According to the story, the Italian monarch King Umberto and his consort, Queen Margherita were touring the area. In order to impress them and to show his patriotic fervor Raffaele chose to top flat bread with food that would best represent the colors of Italy: red tomato, white mozzarella cheese and green basil. The king and queen were so impressed that word quickly reached the masses. The end results were that the dish was well received to the extent that others began to copy it.

http://aboutpizza.com/page.asp?PageID=44

  • 3 votes
#22.53 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:35 AM EST
Lee-479062

Pizza is a type of bread and dish that has existed since time immemorial in Middle Eastern and Mediterranean cuisine. The term 'pizza' first appeared "in a Latin text from the southern Italian town of Gaeta in 997 AD, which claims that a tenant of certain property is to give the bishop of Gaeta 'duodecim pizze', "twelve pizzas", every Christmas day, and another twelve every Easter Sunday,".[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_pizza

  • 3 votes
#22.54 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:40 AM EST
magz

Son of a bitch. What the hell is wrong with a slice? I'm walking to an appointment with my accountant and I get hungry, why can't I get just a slice from a pie that I seen just come out of da oven? Do I have to order the family pack? WTF?

Oh, can I get a medium diet with that? The slice I mean.

  • 4 votes
#22.55 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:47 AM EST
There They Go Again

It's cool, though, I can make my own.

You have a recipe? I'd be very interested in that. I have access to lots of pork brisket at relatively low prices (at least a lot cheaper than beef right now) and a grinder. My wife makes a sausage, peppers, onions and mushrooms dish that's pretty good; even with the supermarket crap. I'm sure that, with the real thing, it would be even better.

  • 4 votes
#22.56 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:00 AM EST
northern girl

http://www.free-venison-recipes.com/venison-italian-sausage.html

Here's the Italian sauagae recipe I use. It calls for a mix of venison and pork, but just plain pork can be used, or mix in any meat of your choice. Super easy.

  • 4 votes
#22.57 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:22 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yeah, that's pretty much it. I use pork, and go a little lighter on the salt. I also use crushed ice instead of water.

Don't make the pork too lean or it'll be dry.

  • 3 votes
#22.58 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:34 AM EST
There They Go Again

Cool, I knew the method, I just wasn't too sure about the spices. If using venison for burger or sausage, my dad taught me to put a little beef suet (tallow) in when you grind it. That removes a bit of the strong taste and makes it moister. Never use venison tallow for that purpose; you'll end up with a coating of grease on the roof of your mouth. When using pork loin or roast, I think I'd have to choose one that didn't have all the fat trimmed off. Usually the butcher takes off the fat to make lard (a good idea if you're cooking a roast, not so good if you're grinding it up).

  • 3 votes
#22.59 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:14 PM EST
northern girl

We use pork butts, which are really fatty, instead of a leaner cut of meat, but thats because we're mixing it with the venison. Yeah, venison tallow sucks! If we use beef tallow, we mix it 75/25 venison/beef. With pork butts we go 50/50 since the butts themselves are about 50/50. Overall it gives us 75% lean- not too dry, not too lean.

  • 3 votes
#22.60 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 2:01 PM EST
There They Go Again

Just describing it is making me hungry.

  • 3 votes
#22.61 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:08 PM EST
MsAubrey

And I'm not eating pizza without tomato sauce.

That wouldn't be pizza... That would be cheese pie. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... Cheese pie and hummus. Drools.

As far as pizza goes? No fish or fruit [tomatoes are the exception] will EVER be found on a pizza I order!!! No veges either!!!

GO MEAT!!!

  • 3 votes
#22.62 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:05 PM EST
bore-head007

pork butts? Pigs Ass!

  • 3 votes
#22.63 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:07 PM EST
Lee-479062

Love me some pig's ass........in a gastronomic way.

  • 2 votes
#22.64 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:15 PM EST
bore-head007

I used to chase 'em back in the day!

Sittin in a tavern, set of filled out designer jean comes walking by, and you notice the nail polish on the hoves,,,, er,, feet, next thing ya know, yer buyin' drinks and leaning over so sing her favorite song in her ear, Sooie Sunset.

After, with a sweet smile, she heads to the ladies room to tinkle

Then one of yer bro's comes up to ya and says, "I know that pig."

Yer heart sinks, and yer mind races, 'cause you was thinkin' about bringing that pig home to Mama, but now ya wonder. Does Virgil have carnal knowledge?

  • 2 votes
#22.65 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:39 PM EST
Pat N

We use pork butts, which are really fatty

You use 90% of the general population of IA? NO WONDER we're losing so many people! NG is grinding us up into sandwiches!

  • 3 votes
#22.66 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:43 PM EST
MJL-3

What is pulled pork?

  • 4 votes
#22.67 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:45 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

You don't wanna know.

  • 5 votes
#22.68 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:48 PM EST
MJL-3

OMG, :)

Yes I do

  • 5 votes
#22.69 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:00 PM EST
Dubbya R

You don't wanna know.

Damn Yankee.

Damn heathenish Yankee lacking all manner of taste.

MJL- Pulled Pork is just a type of barbeque popular in the South [and elsewhere]. Most people make it with a crockpot, though I've seen it done with large-grill smokers on occasion.

It gets it's name because once cooked, the meat is pulled apart, rather than slicing or mincing.

  • 7 votes
#22.70 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:08 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Most people make it with a crockpot, though I've seen it done with large-grill smokers on occasion.

I use a crockpot. But you forgot the most important part: the pulling. MJL, it just means that after the meat is fall-off-the-bone done, you shred it and re-juice it with the BBQ-flavored drippings.

  • 6 votes
#22.71 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:15 PM EST
Lee-479062

Pulled pork is a boston butt, properly smoked until very tender (no crockpots allowed unless you are making pork pot roast), then simply pulled apart into shreds or pulled with a fork working along the grain of the muscle. It comes out shredded versus in chunks for chopped pork. Pulled pork soaks up a lot more sauce than chopped pork. Pulled pork is usually used to make sandwiches with.

The smoking wood is usually oak or hickory and sometimes pecan. Pecan is a milder smoke and is suitable for combining with other woods such as apple, pear or orange. Pecan is also used to tone down mesquite a bit.

  • 4 votes
#22.72 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:18 PM EST
Dubbya R

But you forgot the most important part: the pulling.

It's in my last line, but it's certainly worth reinforcing. Tender. Juicy. Sloppy Moist, bring napkins. Lots:-)

... (no crockpots allowed unless you are making pork pot roast),...

You must be overcooking it, or fully immersing it in fluids. Crockpots work well. Especially for people that don't have smokers, grills, or access.

  • 7 votes
#22.73 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:23 PM EST
mstanley2265

Especially here in the KY if you stop at a BBQ restaurant. :)

  • 4 votes
#22.74 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:24 PM EST
magz

Vegetarians, do not click on. This is how I like my pork.

  • 4 votes
#22.75 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:32 PM EST
mstanley2265

Yum!!!! and that's better than fighting . sighhh

  • 4 votes
#22.76 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:35 PM EST
MJL-3

Pulled Pork is just a type of barbeque popular in the South [and elsewhere]. Most people make it with a crockpot, though I've seen it done with large-grill smokers on occasion.

So I cook it then pull it apart? OK

Maybe I'll give it a try.

  • 6 votes
#22.77 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:42 PM EST
Dubbya R

This is how I like my pork.

*HereisDubbyacarefullyrefrainingfrompoliticalsnarksoasnottoviolatetheverypremiseofthisarticle.*

:-P

So I cook it then pull it apart? OK

Yes, as shanno said it should be tender enough to fall off the roast, or easily pull off. That's when I season or sauce it, and cook it a little longer at a lower heat, so the seasonings-sauce if well absorbed.

  • 9 votes
#22.78 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:43 PM EST
There They Go Again

That bad boy looks good magz. One of my neighbors has two cookers on wheels that he takes about 30 times a year to wherever someone wants to have a pig roast. Takes him about 14 hours and they come out just like that. So tender that the skin's the only thing holding it together. In the 25 years I've known him, I've never once seen him come back with any leftovers. The folks always eat every morsel.

  • 6 votes
#22.79 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:44 PM EST
Pat N

*HereisDubbyacarefullyrefrainingfrompoliticalsnarksoasnottoviolatetheverypremiseofthisarticle.*

*looksmoretomelikeDubbyaisdoingahummingbirdoncrackimpersonation*

  • 7 votes
#22.80 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:46 PM EST
Shannoscubie

It's in my last line, but it's certainly worth reinforcing.

Sorry, I must have missed it!

  • 4 votes
#22.81 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:59 PM EST
Dubbya R

It affects my typing when I have to forcibly keep my mouth closed. We are still very close to the recent debate after all:-)

I must have missed it!

I didn't intend to sound rude or 'correcting' Shanno. I think we cross-posted as I was adding to my comment while in edit mode.

  • 7 votes
#22.82 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:00 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Damn heathenish Yankee lacking all manner of taste.

Dude, I'm from Chicago. Barbeque is a religion in Chicago.

I just wanted to put a weird thought in MJLs head.

  • 6 votes
#22.83 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:06 PM EST
bore-head007

You cracked me up!

  • 3 votes
#22.84 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:15 PM EST
MJL-3

I just wanted to put a weird thought in MJLs head.

And you did :)

  • 3 votes
#22.85 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:39 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

At least I didn't say my first thought.

I was going to tell you that pulled pork was a lot like choked chicken.

  • 5 votes
#22.86 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:43 PM EST
Pat N

Barbeque is a religion in Chicago.

Oh puleeeze. Barbeque is religion in KC. And Memphis. And TX. ANYWHERE but Chicago. You can lay claim to pizza and even to hot dogs...but BBQ is stretching it.

  • 4 votes
#22.87 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:27 PM EST
Pat N

I was going to tell you that pulled pork was a lot like choked chicken.

One of the best restaurants in KC. Check out this t-shirt. You need one, Dennis.

http://www.stroudsrestaurant.com/cgi-bin/web_store.cgi?product=sshirts&cart_id=

  • 4 votes
#22.88 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:30 PM EST
MJL-3

Dennis

I was going to tell you that pulled pork was a lot like choked chicken

That made me laugh :)

  • 5 votes
#22.89 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 7:45 PM EST
magz

This piggy's for TTGA.

  • 5 votes
#22.90 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:39 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Barbeque is religion in KC.

Pat? If we end up stalking each other in KC? Can we go to Gates? I haven't had any Gates since I lived in KC as a kid...I can get bottled Gates sauce at my local grocery store but I'm sure it's not the same.

  • 5 votes
#22.91 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:40 PM EST
Pat N

Pat? If we end up stalking each other in KC? Can we go to Gates? I haven't had any Gates since I lived in KC as a kid..

Absolutely! I like Jack Stack best...(the original one. Over in Martin City)...but Gates is awesome, too. All KC BBQ is good.

We really gotta seriously plan this.

  • 3 votes
#22.92 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:50 PM EST
Shannoscubie

We really gotta seriously plan this.

I'm thinking you're right. But before we decide on the cuisine, we really need to get that button thing worked out.

  • 5 votes
#22.93 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:19 PM EST
Pat N

Here...lets just both cut this one out, scotch tape it to our chest and call it good

http://images5.cpcache.com/product/95374535v3_460x460_Front.jpg

  • 5 votes
#22.94 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:33 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Here...lets just both cut this one out, scotch tape it to our chest and call it good

Seriously? Penguins?!

  • 5 votes
#22.95 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:12 PM EST
Pat N

Seriously? Penguins?!

I think it's highly appropriate for this time of year. It's not like we live in the tropics or anything.

And it beats the hell out of "Sexy Water Buffalo".

  • 5 votes
#22.96 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:21 PM EST
Pat N

Here. This is better. And they come in a five pack. And I like the sentiment.

http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/product/15136725/view/1/type/png/width/378/height/378/white-i-@!$%#-politics-buttons.png

  • 5 votes
#22.97 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 11:31 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Wait, how about this one?

  • 7 votes
#22.98 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:08 AM EST
Dubbya R

Barbeque is a religion in Chicago.

I seem to remember you claiming pizza was a religion there too. What, are Chicagoans 'foodie pantheists'?

Oh puleeeze. Barbeque is religion in KC. And Memphis. And TX. ANYWHERE but Chicago. You can lay claim to pizza and even to hot dogs...but BBQ is stretching it.

I endorse this insightful commentary.

  • 5 votes
#22.99 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:31 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

I seem to remember you claiming pizza was a religion there too. What, are Chicagoans 'foodie pantheists'?

No, just those two sects, who are often at war with each other. Chicago is, though, the land of big food. Sandwiches the size of your head. Stuff like that.

Pat, as people migrated north along the Mississippi after reconstruction many settled in KC and Memphis, St Louis, but a hell of a lot of them made it up to Chicago, because that's where the jobs were - the Stockyards, the Steel Mills, the Railroads... Chicago has always been the hub of transportation and shipping in America.

That's how Chicago became the home of the Blues, and along with it, barbeque. Pizza came later, after WW1.

  • 5 votes
#22.100 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:20 AM EST
magz

Chicago is, though, the land of big food.

Well, eat this.

  • 5 votes
#22.101 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:09 AM EST
Spikegary

Pat-why are you always putting stuff on your boobs? I mean sparkles, now these? Not that I'm complaining.

BTW-Buffalo was the Bread basket of America. All grains travelled through Buffalo, especially after the Erie Canal was opened. Also, Buffalo is the home of Good Food-quality over quantity! :-)

Now back to your reguarly scheduled McCann-isms!

  • 5 votes
#22.102 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:24 AM EST
Pat N

Pat-why are you always putting stuff on your boobs? I mean sparkles, now these?

It's Shann's fault. She corrupted me.

  • 8 votes
#22.103 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:29 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Well, eat this.

Ooh, a snack. But hey, I love corned beef.

Pat-why are you always putting stuff on your boobs? I mean sparkles, now these?

Pat doesn't put sparkles on them. She doesn't have to. They sparkle naturally.

  • 6 votes
#22.104 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:40 AM EST
Spikegary

Yeah. O.K. Somehow I have my doubts about when you were corrupted..I'm thinking it was before Shann came along..... :-)

  • 6 votes
#22.105 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:41 AM EST
Spikegary

Morning, Dennis!

Ah, that's it! It's a natural radiance. O.K. got it!

BTW, as it's the (stupid) political time again, at mstanley's urging, I put the joke blog back up (Rel. 3.0) for stress release and an island of fun sanity in the bizarro world of Newsvine in the political season.

  • 3 votes
#22.106 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:47 AM EST
Lee-479062

Dennis, first you tried to claim pizza for Chicago. That failed. Then you tried to claim barbecue for Chicago. That totally failed. Now you want to claim the blues? Ever hear of Memphis? Or Clarksdale, Mississippi? Even KC has more blues heritage.

Which brings up the question: What can Chicago lay claim to besides that poor ladies cow?

  • 6 votes
#22.107 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:04 AM EST
northern girl

What can Chicago lay claim to besides that poor ladies cow?

Wind and the inability to drive in the snow? http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=chicago+snow+storm+2011&view=detail&id=811E566E075C52239F74E8AD3758360142F44D61&first=0

  • 5 votes
#22.108 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:13 AM EST
bore-head007

What can Chicago lay claim to besides that poor ladies cow?

Ripleys Believe It Or Not! Museum?

And some really hot chicks?

  • 4 votes
#22.109 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:48 AM EST
Lee-479062

ng, that reminds me of Akaslompolo, Finland. Too cold, too much snow.

  • 4 votes
#22.110 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:55 AM EST
Shannoscubie

It's Shann's fault. She corrupted me.

Wait...what?

  • 6 votes
#22.111 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:01 AM EST
Spikegary

Hey there's a Ripley's in Niagara Falls, Ontario too. Isn't there one in New Orleans also?

  • 5 votes
#22.112 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:32 AM EST
Lee-479062

The original is in St. Augustine, Fl. Sorry, Bore-head.

  • 4 votes
#22.113 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:41 AM EST
bore-head007

I visited the one in Chitown in 1971 while enjoying my 12 hr liberty from boot camp.

Ripleys must be a chain museum!

Sorry, Bore-head.

Why Lee? No need!

  • 4 votes
#22.114 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 10:54 AM EST
Pat N

Wait...what?

Don't play innocent with us, young lady.

  • 6 votes
#22.115 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:11 AM EST
Shannoscubie

Don't play innocent with us, young lady.

Hey, I wasn't the one who gave you the nickname!

  • 6 votes
#22.116 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:20 AM EST
Lee-479062

I'm just glad you are both corrupted, regardless of who was first.

  • 6 votes
#22.117 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:24 AM EST
Pat N

Hey, I wasn't the one who gave you the nickname!

But you ARE the one that suggested I put round, attention getting sharp things in my boobage area.

  • 3 votes
#22.118 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:15 PM EST
Shannoscubie

But you ARE the one that suggested I put round, attention getting sharp things in my boobage area.

Okay, yeah. But I offered to do the same!

And did I miss where you clarified which Former President Bush?

  • 4 votes
#22.119 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:26 PM EST
Pat N

Okay, yeah. But I offered to do the same!

My point exactly. You corrupted me. Peer pressure.

And did I miss where you clarified which Former President Bush?

Oops. You were referring to a PRESIDENT Bush? When you asked "which Bush"...I thought you were referring to something else. Why the hell do you think I started blushing and calling both you and Dennis "bad"? lol!

  • 4 votes
#22.120 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:36 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Dennis, first you tried to claim pizza for Chicago. That failed.

Even though it was invented there...

Then you tried to claim barbecue for Chicago. That totally failed.

Only because of a lack of cultural awareness.

Now you want to claim the blues?

You've really never heard of Chicago Blues? Really? Chess/Alligator Records? Muddy Freaking Waters? Willie Dixon?

Ever hear of Memphis? Or Clarksdale, Mississippi? Even KC has more blues heritage.

I've heard off them. Pit stops on the way up to Chicago.

Which brings up the question: What can Chicago lay claim to besides that poor ladies cow?

World class museums. The tallest buildings in America. 22 miles of coastline. A @!$%# ton of sports teams, most of which existed before those other cities thought about getting sports teams. Being the main hub of transportation and shipping for the US. Being the second largest city in terms of area (after LA) and population (after NYC). Having the only river on Earth that flows backwards (engineering is a big deal in Chicago).

And pizza, barbeque and the Blues.

  • 5 votes
#22.121 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:06 PM EST
Shannoscubie

When you asked "which Bush"...I thought you were referring to something else.

Oh, fer! No, I wasn't! Who's doing the corrupting NOW?!

  • 5 votes
#22.122 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:07 PM EST
mstanley2265

Dennis, on one trip through Chicago, a driver lost the wheel on his car, it came bouncing bouncing across three lanes. Interesting place Chicago...different, strange, and it is in the US ....still

  • 3 votes
#22.123 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:10 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Oh, fer! No, I wasn't! Who's doing the corrupting NOW?!

Who isn't?

Dennis, on one trip through Chicago, a driver lost the wheel on his car, it came bouncing bouncing across three lanes.

Let me guess. You were on the Dan Ryan? The busiest road in the world, and with the craziest damn drivers, too. Always fun.

different, strange, and it is in the US ....still

Yeah. We thought about seceding, but we like you folks.

  • 5 votes
#22.124 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:14 PM EST
mstanley2265

Chicago people don't like the rest of us, they think we're hicks..lol

  • 2 votes
#22.125 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:17 PM EST
Pat N

22 miles of coastline.

Now THAT is stretching it. Lake Michigan is now "coastline"...huh? LOL. I used to live on the other side of that "coastline". Know what we did for fun when I was a kid? Go down to the pier and watch the old, senile carp that were trying to commit suicide, bash their heads into the rocks at full speed. Of course, they had to swim around the used condoms and floating debris to do it.

Yet. That's some "coastline" you've got there. =)

  • 4 votes
#22.126 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:51 PM EST
Shannoscubie

senile carp that were trying to commit suicide

That is THE funniest thing I've read all day! I mean, the visual alone...

  • 4 votes
#22.127 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 1:54 PM EST
Lee-479062

Dennis, I think you just want to be argumentative. I posted the origins of pizza (if you look, it wasn't Chicago).

The origins of blues was in Mississippi. I can link that, too. Just because they made a great movie about the blues in Chicago (one of my favorites, by the way) doesn't mean you can claim it originated there. Sorry.

http://www.history-of-rock.com/blues.htm

And your claim for barbecue needs no explanation for laughing it off, but I can accomodate there, as well.

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Chicago is a bad town. It's just a little delusional.

  • 3 votes
#22.128 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:04 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Yet. That's some "coastline" you've got there. =)

No, that was some coastline you had there. It's a lot cleaner on the other side.

Lake Michigan is the third largest body of fresh water on Earth, and Chicago sells water to 11 states. So yeah - coastline.

The origins of blues was in Mississippi. I can link that, too. Just because they made a great movie about the blues in Chicago (one of my favorites, by the way) doesn't mean you can claim it originated there. Sorry.

Apparently you didn't read what I said:

Pat, as people migrated north along the Mississippi after reconstruction many settled in KC and Memphis, St Louis, but a hell of a lot of them made it up to Chicago, because that's where the jobs were - the Stockyards, the Steel Mills, the Railroads... Chicago has always been the hub of transportation and shipping in America.

That's how Chicago became the home of the Blues, and along with it, barbeque. Pizza came later, after WW1.

I never said the Blues originated in Chicago. I said people migrated north and that's how Chicago became the home of the Blues.

  • 6 votes
#22.129 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:12 PM EST
Lee-479062

To claim it as the "home" is to claim it originated there.

  • 4 votes
#22.130 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:19 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

No, it's to claim it lives there. Oh, and from your link:

Many of Memphis' best Blues artists left the city at the time, when Mayor "Boss" Crump shut down Beale Street to stop the prostitution, gambling, and cocaine trades, effectively eliminating the musicians, and entertainers' jobs, as these businesses closed their doors. The Blues migrated to Chicago, where it became electrified, and Detroit.

In northern cities like Chicago and Detroit, during the later forties and early fifties, Muddy Waters, Willie Dixon, John Lee Hooker, Howlin' Wolf, and Elmore James among others, played what was basically Mississippi Delta blues, backed by bass, drums, piano and occasionally harmonica, and began scoring national hits with blues songs. At about the same time, T-Bone Walker in Houston and B.B. King in Memphis were pioneering a style of guitar playing that combined jazz technique with the blues tonality and repertoire.

Boss Crump was mayor from 1910-1915.

  • 8 votes
#22.131 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 2:35 PM EST
Pat N

That is THE funniest thing I've read all day! I mean, the visual alone...

It's just as funny in person. Cheap entertainment. =)

And before Dennis says "Chicago carp don't do that"...I've seen them do it on that side of the lake, too.

  • 6 votes
#22.132 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:05 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Carp are rats that live in water. I always preferred to catch real fish.

  • 7 votes
#22.133 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:13 PM EST
bore-head007

Jumpin Carpfish

  • 5 votes
#22.134 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:21 PM EST
Reply
Shannoscubie

Sorry,magz. That sounded rude and I can't fix the funky formatting. I'll tell you about it later, if it matters. :P

  • 5 votes
Reply#23 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:45 AM EST
Shannoscubie

Oh, lordy, I can't even get the right reply box now. I'd better go to bed.

  • 6 votes
#23.1 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:46 AM EST
magz

Don't let the bed bugs bite.

  • 6 votes
#23.2 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:54 AM EST
CL1

.

  • 3 votes
#23.3 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 1:15 AM EST
Reply
mstanley2265

Dennis, question: what would you make of an member of a group that signed up in Nov 2010, never has any comments or seeds/articles and not seen since last May 2011? Nothing, nada, zilch...would you keep that member in the group?

  • 3 votes
Reply#24 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:42 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

Entirely up to the group owner. Some choose to boot people who appear to be gone and/or never contribute, some don't bother. Doesn't really matter, since they're neither helping nor hurting anything.

  • 5 votes
#24.1 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:25 PM EST
mstanley2265

but why would someone join NV, join a couple of group's and then disappear?

  • 5 votes
#24.2 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:35 PM EST
Pat N

Could be illness, could be arrest, could be divorce, could be any one of a number of things

  • 6 votes
#24.3 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:38 PM EST
Dennis P McCann

What she said. People come and go all the time around here. Hell, I know of at least five Viners who have died. I doubt they stopped to leave the groups they had joined first.

  • 8 votes
#24.4 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:43 PM EST
mstanley2265

I realize that but since McSpocky got me on as co-admin, I've only seen like three now and he's got some big groups, that haven't commented, seeded, wrote...just sit there and nothing for months on end and then cease. Unless it's re-regs that have them as an ace in the hole...

Well I'm going to boot them since this one and the other two haven't done a single thing in more than a year. It takes time cleaning up the group lists but I've found some good articles too checking up on members. :)

  • 6 votes
#24.5 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:53 PM EST
neenie1991

I go 9 months to a year and depending on the length of their time here, I boot them. Culling is tedious. Get down with your bad self.

  • 5 votes
#24.6 - Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:50 PM EST
magz

Get down with your bad self.

Yeh mama.

  • 5 votes
#24.7 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:56 AM EST
mstanley2265

More like this flip side

  • 4 votes
#24.8 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:32 AM EST
Reply
Miguel Angel Tinoco Rodriguez

Since when do a generation of vipers have had a code of honnor, much less honnor, for it is in their nature to be treacherous!!!

  • 1 vote
Reply#25 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:25 AM EST
Dennis P McCann

Vipers? I think you'll find the pet articles in the Home and Garden section.

  • 6 votes
#25.1 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:36 AM EST
RAC 0129

Bible-thumping alert!

  • 6 votes
#25.2 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 9:46 AM EST
mstanley2265

no, that goes to the Theocratic Life group. :)

  • 5 votes
#25.3 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:27 PM EST
VerbalBarb

Vipers? I think you'll find the pet articles in the Home and Garden section

Or if he has $100,000 and change he can find a Viper at a Dodge dealership.

  • 6 votes
#25.4 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:28 PM EST
Dubbya R

...a generation of vipers have had a code of honnor, much less honnor...

I was born in the Year of the Snake, and I have honor.

I even know how to use spell-check;-)

  • 5 votes
#25.5 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 4:32 PM EST
mstanley2265

Salute Dubbya R....I'm a Fire Pig...haha

  • 5 votes
#25.6 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:21 PM EST
Dubbya R

...I'm a Fire Pig...

Coincidentally, we are discussing pork barbecue in a thread up above;-)

  • 6 votes
#25.7 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 5:34 PM EST
mstanley2265

I noticed, ohhhhh I think I'll do some offline, something till y'll switch to Beef

  • 4 votes
#25.8 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 6:04 PM EST
mstanley2265

argh, did no one catch that?...hint little piggies...

  • 4 votes
#25.9 - Mon Jan 9, 2012 10:35 PM EST
MsAubrey

I was born on the cusp year of the Goat/Rat. I tend to act more like the Rat than the Goat... Which interestingly enough... My birth sign is the Goat.

  • 4 votes
#25.10 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:51 AM EST
Dubbya R

...did no one catch that?...

It might be more a matter of figuring out a reply, and one that doesn't sound like either a threat or a recipe;-)

  • 5 votes
#25.11 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:43 PM EST
mstanley2265

you Never played little piggies? This little piggie went to market, this little piggie stayed home, this little piggie had roast beef, this little piggie had none, and this little piggie went wee wee all the way home. And that's when you tickle the baby cause you're counting their piggie toes. It helps the baby connect with their feet, also.. Counting their head, their eyes, their nose, their ears and mouth, then tickle the Belly Button.. And the Best one of all is counting their Ribs...hahahaha

  • 5 votes
#25.12 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:14 PM EST
There They Go Again

My grandson now has the habit. I'll grab his foot while he's sitting on my lap and ask, "What's this?" His reply is always, "Pig Market". Then he puts the other foot up and says "Pig Market" again. Not only does it help him learn about body parts but he learns to put words together into concepts, which helps him learn to talk better. Besides, he loves the tickling part. Then he tries to tickle me and, when I start laughing, he thinks that it's the funniest thing he ever saw.

  • 8 votes
#25.13 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:44 PM EST
Shannoscubie

Then he puts the other foot up and says "Pig Market" again.

Just watch it if he puts up his Johnson and says "Pig Market" again LOL!

  • 5 votes
#25.14 - Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:47 PM EST
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